what.is.truth
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In the Bible it days 144.000 people are coming to heaven, why do so many Christians say "everyone comes to heaven, you just have to believe in God?
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Question to Christians
- Thread starter what.is.truth
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Upfront I declare myself a Universalist – 'everyone is saved' – based on the teachings of the Fathers and on my understanding of the nature of God.In the Bible it days 144.000 people are coming to heaven, why do so many Christians say "everyone comes to heaven, you just have to believe in God?
The number 144,000 is derived from the Apocalypse of John, which is a symbolic text, and not to be read literally.
I don't believe that Jesus would die, just for a 144,000 people.
When Jesus spent his time on Earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments. But how did Jesus love all his neighbours as he loves himself? How did Jesus hold out his hands on the cross, and love the man with the hammer and nails?
We know Jesus prayed on the cross; forgave them Father. To forgive is a great thing to do; but loving someone as you love yourself seems so far above just forgiving. Could forgiveness break down all barriers, so we can love our neighbours as we love ourselves.
When Jesus spent his time on Earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments. But how did Jesus love all his neighbours as he loves himself? How did Jesus hold out his hands on the cross, and love the man with the hammer and nails?
We know Jesus prayed on the cross; forgave them Father. To forgive is a great thing to do; but loving someone as you love yourself seems so far above just forgiving. Could forgiveness break down all barriers, so we can love our neighbours as we love ourselves.
I hope that number is not literal!
By the end of the third century (c. 299CE), scholars reckon that Christianity comprised approximately 10% of the Roman Empire’s population, which translates to roughly 6 million Christians out of a total empire population of 60 million.
250CE: Approximately 1.2–2 million Christians (2–3% of the population).
200CE: Approximately 200,000–350,000 Christians (less than 1% of the population).
I reckon therefore, that the 144,000 quota would have been filled sometime before 250CE ...
By the end of the third century (c. 299CE), scholars reckon that Christianity comprised approximately 10% of the Roman Empire’s population, which translates to roughly 6 million Christians out of a total empire population of 60 million.
250CE: Approximately 1.2–2 million Christians (2–3% of the population).
200CE: Approximately 200,000–350,000 Christians (less than 1% of the population).
I reckon therefore, that the 144,000 quota would have been filled sometime before 250CE ...
Taking the Apocalypse of John -- the Book of Revelation -- as literal will lead to all sorts of contradictions.In the Bible it days 144.000 people are coming to heaven, why do so many Christians say "everyone comes to heaven, you just have to believe in God?
Apocalyptic writings such as The Book of Revelation and the Book of Daniel used symbolism and symbolic visions as a sort of parable. The Book of Daniel is generally taken nowadays to really be about the rule of Antiochus Epiphanes, a king who came after Alexander the Great, and who oppressed Jews.
The Book of Revelation is believed by many to be about the rule of Nero in Rome, who oppressed Christians.
The books had to be concealed in symbolism because writing about these figures was too dangerous at the time.
Which is not to say that deeper and more lasting truths cannot be taken from apocalyptic writings
IMO
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