Are metaphysical and moral truths discoverable?

[Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu]

l realities and how would we know about them?

“Now, Kalamas, one who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now:


”'If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.' This is the first assurance he acquires.


”'But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.' This is the second assurance he acquires.


”'If evil is done through acting, still I have willed no evil for anyone. Having done no evil action, from where will suffering touch me?' This is the third assurance he acquires.


”'But if no evil is done through acting, then I can assume myself pure in both respects.' This is the fourth assurance he acquires.


“One who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires these four assurances in the here-&-now.” Kalama Sutta: To the Kalamas

 

[Clobbernocky]

Hmm, maybe I've misunderstood what you mean by discoverable moral truths. Not arguing that these aren't worthy traits, I was expecting a bit more definition than single words..

Honesty as deserved is a necessary trait having existence as a characteristic, and quality of being. Honesty as deserved is a moral truth.

"Deservedness" certainly needs clarifying a bit?

There is natural deserve such as human rights for all according to people's responsible innate natures. There is also earned deserve, which is what is worked for. Deservedness is that which people have the right to have or attain to. A virtue is measured to the standards of all other virtues it accords with.

Maybe I'll wind my neck in a bit until I see where you're going with this

 

[Clobbernocky]

In another thread @Clobbernocky has talked about 'load bearing' concepts in philosophy.

Yes load bearing concepts do actual work in reality. The virtue of honesty as deserved is a load bearing quality of being.

 

[RJM]

Yes load bearing concepts do actual work in reality. The virtue of honesty as deserved is a load bearing quality of being.

Without workers being justly paid and scales being honest, trade and commerce wouldn't work? Or not for long?

Honesty as deserved is a moral truth.

Again, the difference between (personal) morals and (tribal/social) mores?
(My post #2)

 

[Clobbernocky]

Without workers being justly paid and scales being honest, trade and commerce wouldn't work? Or not for long?

Yeah, sooner or later people have to reckon with what deserves what.

Again, the difference between (personal) morals and (tribal/social) mores?
(My post #2)

In tribes, or in personal morals people have to think what deserves what. I think it's inescapable. Obviously things can go very wrong with how they see deserve, and/or how they measure it. However there's actual vs. perceived deserve. Actual deserve starts with values/virtues and what is done according to that. The best leaders take care of their people unselfishly. Living today in America I would say the imbalance of deserve is rather high, and we all pay for it. The effective leaders such as the oligarchs reward themselves well beyond what they deserve, or what is needed. So when people have that kind of success I don't see it helping people proportionally.