Mystery Babylon Identified in Just Two Verses

Mystery Babylon can be identified by using only two verses…

Verse #1:
Revelation 18:24
“And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”


The above verse is referring to Mystery Babylon. In her was found Blood. Said Blood was that of all that were slain. Easy enough to understand. Or is it?

A few questions arise…

  • Is the word ‘Blood’ literal, as in the Blood that flows through our bodies?
  • Does ‘all’ really mean all, as in everyone since Adam and Eve?
  • Is Mystery Babylon an actual Woman that goes around drinking people’s Blood?

Because a literal interpretation sounds too strange and unlikely to most people, a symbolic meaning is wrongfully assumed. Unfortunately, this has caused the identity of Mystery Babylon to remain a Mystery to just about everyone on the planet… until now.

The answer to the questions is *yes*. Therefore, a literal interpretation will be applied to Revelation 18:24 so that we may finally identify who Mystery Babylon Truly is. And since Mystery Babylon drank the Blood of those slain since the Creation, we can immediately discard modern entities such as the Papacy, Rome, United States, UN, etc. as being our Woman of Mystery.

Now, if we are lucky, all we need to do is look for the very first person who was slain to see if Mystery Babylon was drinking their Blood during that time. Did God make this easy for us? We all know that Abel was the first to be slain, so let us try Genesis 4 to see if we can find anyone drinking Abel’s Blood…

Verse #2:
Genesis 4:11
“And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand”


And there we have it. Mystery Babylon was there on the scene to receive the Blood of the first person who was ever slain. We now have her identified from just two verses.

Mystery Babylon is none other than Mother Earth.

And, because the Bible does not contradict itself, we know that this fact will hold True all throughout the Word of God.

Base12 Jul 7, 2023

Visit thread: https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/20718/

The Left Hand Path

I am very grateful for the creation of this subforum by the admins. Not all LHP discussions may be suitable for the general religious public and this can be a great place for ‘us’ to talk without antagonizing non-left hand path religions. So, friends of the LHP please find your way here, and let’s discuss our philosophies, practices, and beliefs. All non-left hand path religions are welcome to discuss our Path as well. Please keep it civil.

‘Amir Alzzalam Jan 8, 2022

Visit thread: https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/19962/

The Warrior Philosophe

The Warrior Philosophe

War is a highly charged, emotional term.  Very few among us are truly enamored of war.  War engages horrific images of death and destruction.  War invokes charges of hatred and oppression.  War provokes concepts of misuse of power and brutality, and suffering.

Yet, war is a natural state of being.

While it can be rightly said that our religious and moral guidelines specifically lead us towards peaceful endeavors and co-operative interactions with our fellow humans, it is equally rightfully said that peace is not a natural state for any portion of reality, material or energetic.  Peace is static.  Stasis is not a normal or natural state of being, down to and including the sub-atomic level.  War is not a static condition, war by its nature invokes change, and change is the natural state of being for all material and energetic expression.  Nothing in existence remains the same, except change.  All lessor expressions of matter and energy are subject to greater expressions of matter and energy.  The natural laws such as gravity and the conservation of energy illustrate this conclusively.  There cannot be stasis between two bodies of gravity, in time one will overcome the other.  There is, and cannot be, stasis between two contrasting expressions of energy, one will overcome the other.  The battle between the irresistible force and the immovable object are the natural state of existence for all of reality, originating with the “big bang” itself.

Compromises are evident in nature, certainly planets do not crash headlong into the sun.  This is because there are mitigating factors, such as motion and gyroscopy, that serve as an attempt to balance the dance of matter and energy.  In the end though, certainly long after we are dust, either the planets will collide with the sun, or the sun will cease to exist and the dance of gravity will no longer be of direct concern in this specific instance.  Stasis is not only impossible, but would disrupt the entire process.  Peace, in the sense of stasis, is not possible, and is not natural.

If war is to invoke death, then to consider death is to also consider continuation.  If we are to believe life began as a simple celled organism (perhaps a single-cell, perhaps not quite “celled”), then that organism required energy to be considered “alive.”  That energy had to be acquired somewhere and somehow.  Energy had to be taken, captured from some source.  Whether that source was solar or geothermal, or perhaps chemical, nonetheless energy had to be captured, converted and utilized by this simple creature.

We are told that in time, simple celled creatures began feeding upon each other.  Osmosis, absorption, or some other means, employed the use of consuming one creature for the benefit of another.  Few could argue that life does not require life in order to survive.  As creatures grew in complexity, the art of feeding became more developed.  Fish ate fish.  Amphibians ate fish and amphibians.  Reptiles ate fish, amphibians and reptiles.  And so on.  Plants ate sunlight and matter trapped in decayed materials, and made themselves available to other creatures.  We call this the “food chain.”

If there is merit to the concept of “collective consciousness” and primordial genetic memory, then war as “eat or be eaten” is our most ancient memory, our most fundamental inherent instinct.  While we may attempt to console ourselves that we only eat what we require, nevertheless our actions to provide for our own sustenance necessitate war upon other creatures, who in their own turn have warred on other creatures still.  War, in this sense, is an integral part of nature.

War among the animals, including humans, is an ongoing and perpetual state.  Greater force envelops and consumes lesser force, greater mass envelops and consumes lesser mass, all in the effort to survive.  The question arises as to whether or not this is “right,” when considered in the light of religious and moral philosophy.  Denial of the natural inherent state of being of all material and energetic existence cannot confer right or wrong on the matter; it simply is the way things are.  If we proceed with the presumption that nature is created, and that nature is “good” (or at least how nature is intended to be), then denial of the natural state cannot confer right or wrong to the issue.  Or, more correctly, if any inference can be done, it must be that “war” is “right,” in that as war is the natural state of the creation, and creation is created in the manner it was intended to be, then G-d created war as the natural state of existence for all of nature.  And it is good.

It is difficult to see how even “peacefully minded” humans do not war with nature.  A human may indeed exist peaceably with other humans, perhaps even all other humans.  Yet, the natural portion of the human animal requires war with other creatures, for survival.  The food we eat must of necessity require we kill other creatures, whether animal or vegetable.  That we personally do the slaughter or not is irrelevant, other creatures die that we may live.  This is no different from that of other creatures, who in their own turn must also slaughter in order to survive.  To console ourselves believing that we are not committing war against other creatures is to blind ourselves to their perspective.  Wolves may indeed live peaceably amongst themselves, but only by waging war upon the lambs that feed them, and feed them well.  Lambs likewise may live peaceably amongst themselves, but only by waging war upon fields of grass.

To be sure, “war” as the term has come into accepted modern usage, connotes far more than simply consumption for the sake of survival.  War as an art form is thought to have developed about 5 thousand years ago in conjunction with the development of agriculture, metallurgy and walled fortifications.  It was here that war most likely began to take the form of slaughter for sport, perhaps with political motivation and instigation.  Here is where powerful men wrested with other powerful men for the sake of exerting superiority.  Competition was no longer for survival, competition was enacted for its own sake.  Later, this would “evolve” into non-mortal combat, such as the Greek Olympiad, for entertainment.  But in the beginning of war as an art, the competition was to the death, with the victor taking all, literally.

As society developed beyond the requirements of survival, the concept of consumption expanded beyond food, water, shelter, clothing and fire.  Other resources, such as metal and stone, came into play.  And tribes came into play, as one tribe exerted force over another, requiring tribute in some form or other.  Humans became spoils of war as much as executors of war.  Tribes began to vie for dominance over resources, including their respective populations.  The victor was free to do with the spoils what seemed fit to do.

No doubt fledgling expressions of institutional religion played a role, developing it would seem side by side and in conjunction with the development of war.  The gods of war seem as common from a point beginning about 5 thousand years ago as the gods of the sun and moon, harvest and death.  This would seem to corroborate the intimacy that early civilizations had with war, acknowledging war as an integral part of their lives.  Even in the infancy of monotheism, G-d was depicted as a warrior and supporter of warriors.

War inspires greatness from within.  War inspires courage, selflessness, camaraderie and a sense of brotherhood.  War engages loyalty and devotion.  War invokes appreciation and gratitude.  Warriors understand these things with a greater intensity than most others.  We do not know ourselves without a battle to fight, for it is only in the throes of a battle that we can draw ourselves up to our full potential.  That battle may not be with bullets and bombs whizzing by, it may just as well be in fighting what we feel is “the good fight.”  We are inspired by challenges to rise above ourselves.  When things are going as we desire, we have no challenge to overcome, we grow lax and apathetic.  We become “peaceful,” static.  Our potential growth becomes stunted.

The warrior tradition has maintained societies and cultures around the world and across recorded history.  Even in the passive resistance of some cultures, there is still the underlying motivation of conquest and superiority.  In what remains of aboriginal tribal societies, the warrior ethic is promulgated and perpetuated.  The warrior is seen as the defender of and provider for the tribe.  As extended into modern societies, the warrior ethic is often misunderstood by outsiders who confuse the warrior ethic with politics.  War is with us, and ever shall be, so long as we draw breath and require food and shelter for our survival.  Let us not confuse the issue, warriors earn our respect.

_________________________

As always, respectful comments are welcome and appreciated.  

juantoo3 Jun 6, 2006

Visit thread: https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/5259/

Absolute Truth

I’ve been pondering the concept of absolute truth in regards to religion recently and I’m curious about other people’s understanding of this. Namely, whether you believe it exists or not or if its something your religious tradition teaches. For example, my past religious affiliation was traditional Catholicism, and the absolute, infallible truth of the Catholic Church was massively important.

I’m actively looking for another religious tradition to follow and I admit I find it hard to understand religions that don’t seem to have a concept of absolute truth, such as neo-paganism. To me, something is either true or false. For example, there is a God or there isn’t, etc. etc.

And if its true, it should be universally true (I’ve never understand the ‘it’s the right religion for me, but not for others’ idea). This might just be the way my brain is trained to think because of Catholicism though. I’m interested in hearing other opinions and thoughts on this topic!

Modesty 19/07/2023

Visit thread: https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/20728/

Our thoughts and prayers…

Where best does this post fit?

I do not know.

This phrase oft used by newscasters and politicians particularly after school shootings. After any disaster, but for me particularly irritating after mass shootings and achool shootings in the US…because our pundits and pols could easily follow the positive results seen around the civilized world by changing our gun laws.

But this is not a political post. It is about thinking prayer will solve a problem we can solve ourselves.

No it’s not. It is about MY thoughts whenever I hear “our thoughts and prayers go out to the parents, family and classmates of the children”

Aaaarrgghhhh that irritates this old hunter and gun owner….change the freaking LAW!

But this post is really about us non believers, atheists and agnostics….and prayer. Equally offensive to us is…. “I’ll pray for you.”

Now hear me out, I am, we are fully aware your intent is to at a minimum soothe and comfort by asking G!d to benefit us in some way, to heal, to reduce pain or strife, or to make the end come quickly or the operation go well. Whatever it my be your inclination to pray for me is well meaning, from a place of compassion, utilizing a tool that you and yours know and have faith in.

But for me, it is not. And in the past few weeks I have inquired of dozens of atheists, agnostics and non abrahamics about this phrase. And their gut reaction.

“I WILL PRAY FOR YOU”

I hope this in an educational moment. I say specifically ‘gut’ reaction because that is the most common response I got from when I asked. “If you are sick, in pain, or emotionally down, how do you feel when someone says, ‘I will pray for you’?”

Again, I asked non believers…like me. And all responses were in a similar vein.

Makes me:
Irritated
Sick to my stomach
Want to vomit
Mad
Confused
Wish they would shut up
Wish they would go away
Not now
This again?

The thing is we know that is not your goal, we know you wish to benefit us with the thought.

But the non believer has a hard time believing YOU believe in G!d. The non believer has a hard time believing you believe the all-powerful omniscient thing you believe in that they don’t could make any beneficial.changes at all and now you have just made my brain hurt inthis contemplation and pissed me off! Aasrgghh.

Again, this is me, and the results of my nonscientific survey of some of the non-believers I know…and oh the rants I had to listen to and the utter anger I incited by asking the question…it triggered many negative memories….and the exercise on my part triggered memories that were not beneficial today…years and decades after the “I’ll pray for you” incident!

Let us make this an educational moment.

If your goal is to actually benefit the body, mind and soul of your friend instead of IPFY….

Do you mind if I pray for you?
Would you like me to pray for you?

Much better but both these while.not increasing stomach acid will start my mental gymnastics.

Is there anything I can get for you?
Is there anything I can say that will help right now?
Will a hug help?
Can I get you water or anything?

We who don’t believe in your unseen G!d do believe in this physical world.

These are my thoughts originally started in another conversation here, which started me on my poll of others. And this post is to followup so we may discuss your thoughts on the topic and increase understanding for all.

wil 10/07/2023

Visit thread: https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/20724/#post-378378

Follow Christ but not Christian

muhammad_isa said:
As you say, all Christians consider themselves monotheist

They were replying to Thomas and he to them.

So I moved over here. For many if not most Christians they would say I am not.

My issues are many, but to start I believe the Bible has some issues from the selection of what 66 books were kept as canon vs what was tossed. Then there is the authorship, translation, editing and interpretation, I am not into arguing which is most accurate or the intricacies and nuance of each jot ot tittle I have issues with, I just enjoy reading and watching the discussions of others who argue so forcibly that they are right and others are wrong and pretty much take it as proof that nobody has a corner on what is truth, and they just continue the same 2000 + year old debates.

For me the words purported to be Jesus’s and much of the allegory, stories, and parables assist me in dealing with current life issues and relationships. The thing is they aren’t always the same, I have changed, grown, evolved in thinking from the last time I read that passage and my current issues differ, therefore my interpretation of any given passage will differ based on my need for that information at this point in time.

But in reality for me it is the story, it matters not if the story ever happened or if it is a true account, but can I learn something from this times remembrance or reading?

I ain’t a monotheistic or a polytheist or theist period. I don’t know if there was a Jesus (or if his purported words or deeds are one person or an amalgam of folk living at the time and mythical stories)

And I also find benefit in Buddha, Lao Tzu, Thay, Gita, and many other gurus, teachers, preachers, scientists, researchers.

I can surely understand how anyone who has one solid belief in one religion or sect of a religion would have issues on an interfaith site.

I also understand why folks have issues with my belief

wil Feb 17, 2023

Visit thread: https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/20530/

Why I take the Bible literally

I wanted to address this to explain why I might be intolerant of those that take the bible out of context or pick and choose passages they like and leave out the rest.

I believe with all my heart that it’s God’s direct message to me. Think about how Holy and Sacred that would make it that God spoke and the written Word is the result. To deny that is blasphemy to me but I understand that not everyone believes as I do.. but when Scripture is twisted beyond recognition it would be as if I was giving permission for someone to blaspheme God by not answering back.

Ok as to why I take it literally. Question if you were wrong in interpreting it in a way God did not intend and developed a false teachings and shared that teaching with others.. the bible says their blood is on your hands. If I take it literally then when I face God I can stand on the fact that I took Him at His Word and didn’t put my Self into it.

What this means. Yes the earth was created in six literal days. The earth is approximately 6000 years old. I’m more and more convinced we are not traveling around the sun 67000 mph and we are in an enclosed environment. I believe there is a place of torment Sheol and a Lake of Fire Hell. If I’m wrong then I’ll find out later but by taking it literally I am secure in not fabricating based on mans teaching.

I believe the Bible is complete and doesn’t need further interpretation or messengers with a different message. God’s plan of Salvation is clear and that’s what it’s all about. How He is dealing with Mans rebellion and how He made a way for our redemption. I feel secure in my Salvation and it boggles my mind that someone could possibly try to convince me that it’s wrong and they have a different truth. Funny right?

What a wild ride this is!

Faithfulservant Jul 4, 2023

Visit thread: https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/20714/