Thoughts about Trinity beliefs

Yahweh kid said:
I believe no man will die in such a way for a lie....
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If that is the case... does that mean that if someone dies for a religious belief - it cannot be false?
Does that mean if someone dies for their religious beliefs, even a non Christian faith, their faith cannot be false?
 
TheLightWithin said:
If that is the case... does that mean that if someone dies for a religious belief - it cannot be false?
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No, they can also believe whatever their cause is to be true, like so many of our fellow members in this forum. I am saying, a person who dies for an actual lie is mentally unstable. 🫣
TheLightWithin said:
Does that mean if someone dies for their religious beliefs, even a non Christian faith, their faith cannot be false?
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No.
 
Yahweh kid said:
No, they can also believe whatever their cause is to be true, like so many of our fellow members in this forum. I am saying, a person who dies for an actual lie is mentally unstable. 🫣
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Well, if someone puts themselves in harm's way at all for what they KNOW to be a lie it would be an odd thing indeed.
Do you think there's any chance that people who follow different religions think their own beliefs to be true?
I mean, it's a little hard to call something a belief if you DON'T think it's true... 🤔 :oops:
 
TheLightWithin said:
Ok. What happens without the trinity, salvation wise? Salvation from what, in your view (as a universalist)

Salvation from what? Deism offers G-d but no condemnation.
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My answer is salvation from the sinful side of our nature, which ends in death. That doesn't happen without the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but I don't think that a person needs to know that, to be saved by them.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Maybe maybe not? If you use a term that is not in the original text, and claim it is utterly essential, AND claim that the original text is the authority upon which it is based, well, it makes total and complete sense that you will forever get this response: "Wait what? Are you sure?"
Nothing wrong with that. Just be happy to supply the answer and the argument to back it up to new askers daily. :)

(especially if it is a concept challenging to grasp that you acknowledge is mystery anyway)
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I don't understand this obsession with the word "Trinity" not being there. Do you see the word "monotheism" in there anywhere?
 
Update on my thoughts about the Trinity.

There are three names in the Bible that can be replaced with "God" without changing any true statements into false ones: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus teaches His disciples some practices that look like worshiping Him in ways that God reserves for Himself. That includes calling Him, Jesus, "Lord" and "God." That's all that we can know, and all we need to know. We don't need to wonder about that. We can just trust Him that those practices are not contrary to God's prohibition against worshiping other gods. We don't need to try to find ways from Greek philosophy, with substances that aren't substances and words that don't mean what they ever mean anywhere else, for it not to be worshiping other gods, just trust Jesus that it is not worshiping other gods.
 
Isaiah 55:
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

He said that we will not always understand everything He says in the Word. The Trinity concept is not easy to explain... 😁
 
Yahweh kid said:
Isaiah 55:
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

He said that we will not always understand everything He says in the Word. The Trinity concept is not easy to explain... 😁
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It looks to me like there is no such thing as the Trinity concept. There are many Trinity concepts, maybe as many as there are people saying that they believe or don't believe it, and all the Trinity concepts that I see in Internet discussions look very different to me from what it means and always has meant to theologians and church fathers. People don't say this, but I suspect that mostly where they are getting their idea of the Trinity is from the Trinity shield, which actually has four persons, the name "God" in the middle, the names of the three Persons(T) around it, with lines between Persons(T) labeled "is not," and lines to "God" labeled "is." People promoting Trinity beliefs in online discussions mostly seem to me to be ignoring the "is not," or thinking that it doesn't matter. It isn't there just for decoration.
 
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!! Just now I searched for images of the Trinity Shield, and every one of them except one has the "is" going in the wrong direction for the Son and for the Holy Spirit. That's how much people really care what the Bible teaches about the Trinity. It has always looked to me like people are mostly only using the word "Trinity" as a prop for saying that Jesus is God, without knowing or caring what else the Bible says about it.

In my story the distinction between the Persons(T) is every bit as important as their oneness. That's what the discussion was all about leading up to the council of Nicaea, and what the council was all about. Some of the fathers and bishops were trying to uphold the distinction and were accused or suspected of heresy by the others, but in the end the bishops all agreed to uphold it.
 
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Often when people appear to be promoting or defending "the Trinity," it looks to me like it's only for the part that they think says "Jesus is God," which incidentally is no what the creeds say that are recited weekly in the churches.
Yahweh kid said:
Ok.... it looks like you are overwhelmed with all the info on the internet.....Be still and ask God to give you understanding and peace on this matter.
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What do you mean by "the Trinity concept"? What do you think "the Trinity concept" is? Is it "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?" "One God, three persons?" What are you calling "the Trinity concept"? What exactly does it say?
 
Yahweh kid said:
We do not find the word Trinity in the Bible, for me it is a way to understand how God can be three persons... "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" concept = idea.
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Okay, so when you say "the Trinity" or "the Trinity concept," you mean "God is three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit"? I agree with that.
 
Yahweh kid said:
Why did Jesus say we need to fear God?
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Are you referring to Luke 12:5?

What is the lesson here?

4: "And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do."
He's saying to be brave in the face of persecution.

5: "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."
If you're going to fear anything, then the bigger fear is surely God, because whereas your persecutors can only destroy the body, God can send the soul to perdition.

6: "Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?"
7: "But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows."

These two verses counterbalance the 'threat' of the prior verse – sparrows are sold in the marketplace for a pittance, but God knows and numbers every living thing ... likewise you are known to God, and loved by Him, and your worth to Him, as a 'labourer in his vineyard' is worth more than a flock of sparrows.

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What is the greatest commandment?
Love God – not fear Him.

"God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him." (1 John 4:16)

Those who live in God live in the light, and they love God, and do not fear Him – one cannot love the thing one fears.

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TheLightWithin said:
And then there is this 40 minute video by a Christadelphian explaining his critique of the trinity.
How the Bible debunks the false doctrine of the Trinity.
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"He (the Father) did have a son who was physically separate from him ... " 42 seconds in – not Trinitarian doctrine.
" (The Holy Spirit) is not a living entity or creature that has a mind of its own ..." 56 seconds in – not Trinitarian doctrine.

Two utterly silly statements at which point I would no longer bother listening to the man.

Read John 14:26
"But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you."
No mention of this verse ...

The idea that "I can't make sense of it' therefore debunks a doctrine is just silly, dare I say a stupid argument. I can't make sense of Quantum Physics, but I accept it. I can't see how dna actually evolves, and no-one's ever seen it happen, but I accept it ...
 
Thomas said:
Those who live in God live in the light, and they love God, and do not fear Him – one cannot love the thing one fears.
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I don't think Jesus was referring to believers. You cannot dismiss verses that supposingly contradicts another... God is love, but so many do not want to accept that He is just as well.
 
Yahweh kid said:
I don't think Jesus was referring to believers. You cannot dismiss verses that supposingly contradicts another... God is love, but so many do not want to accept that He is just as well.
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But threatening them isn't going to do it.
 
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