Purpose of religion

Bear Wild said:
Hello. Just joined and saw your avatar. You seem to be too harsh on the ecstatic state. In most initiation rites it is used to remove the ego driven adolescent mind and allow an adult "soul-centered mind" to surface. It of course is influenced by the context in which you are doing it but it does cause profound changes. There was a study I wish i could find find again showing that when swedes living in the city and go out deep in the countryside can have these ecstatic state. The all describe a profound change were the feel reconnected with the greater than human world. This is an important connection that is lacking in our current ego centered consumer minds.
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Welcome to the forum, Bear Wild. Yes, I follow science. That is why "spiritual" or "ecstacy" have no meaning for me.
But I follow a non-dual Hindu philosophy (Advaita), which does not recognize individuality. It puts even non-living substances at par with the living ones. All things rose out of the hot plasma ball/point at the time of Big Bang. So none is any different. I do not believe in existence of soul, so whether humans, dogs, vegetation or a stone have it or not, is not a question for me.
Oh, yes, I have experienced that feeling while on treks in Himalayas where the morning shows as if you are sitting on a sea of clouds, a 'very good' 'all is well' feeling if one is not very cold or does not have an upset stomach. :D
 
I’m not sure Ramakrishna’s samadhi experiences could be compared to just a good feeling inside. It seemed more like a connection with the whole of the cosmos – being part of everything for a short while, and then coming back to normal reality. It was a total loss of self. It was more than just feeling good?
 
Aupmanyav said:
Welcome to the forum, Bear Wild. Yes, I follow science. That is why "spiritual" or "ecstacy" have no meaning for me.
But I follow a non-dual Hindu philosophy (Advaita), which does not recognize individuality. It puts even non-living substances at par with the living ones. All things rose out of the hot plasma ball/point at the time of Big Bang. So none is any different. I do not believe in existence of soul, so whether humans, dogs, vegetation or a stone have it or not, is not a question for me.
Oh, yes, I have experienced that feeling while on treks in Himalayas where the morning shows as if you are sitting on a sea of clouds, a 'very good' 'all is well' feeling if one is not very cold or does not have an upset stomach. :D
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I haven't followed this closely, but I'm wondering if maybe sometimes people are using the word "ecstasy" as a kind of idiom for the ideal state, rather than a description of feelings. Words these days are being borrowed for things very different from what they used to mean.
 
RJM said:
I’m not sure Ramakrishna’s samadhi experiences could be compared to just a good feeling inside. It seemed more like a connection with the whole of the cosmos – being part of everything for a short while, and then coming back to normal reality. It was a total loss of self. It was more than just feeling good?
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For an Advaitist, there is no self other than the whole universe. Ramakrishna did not reach that stage. :D
 
Aupmanyav said:
:D Experiences are but illusions (Brahma Satyam, Jagan-mithya), so said the Sankara. Brahman alone is the truth.
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Perhaps human beings are not equipped to experience the totality of reality. We experience our small part of the full reality through the evidence of our five material senses, and perhaps there are more subtle senses too, that some people have more than others.

Perhaps sometimes in a person’s life there is the brief experience of the ‘touch of the divine’ lasting only a short time because for it to continue would be too much. But the effects of that touch go on to reverberate down through all the parts of our being for a long time afterwards.
 
But I believe that ‘divine touch’ will not happen without a person's invitation. The ‘higher powers’ may not interfere in human affairs without their invitation. Sages like Ramakrishna renounced all material ties and focussed entirely on the bhakti love of God.
 
RJM said:
But I believe that ‘divine touch’ will not happen without a person's invitation. The ‘higher powers’ may not interfere in human affairs without their invitation. Sages like Ramakrishna renounced all material ties and focussed entirely on the bhakti love of God.
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I disagree here. I've had such things occur when I didn't invite it(and my mind wasn't even centered on such).

I find Ramakrishna extremely inspiring, though.
 
RJM said:
But I believe that ‘divine touch’ will not happen without a person's invitation. The ‘higher powers’ may not interfere in human affairs without their invitation. Sages like Ramakrishna renounced all material ties and focussed entirely on the bhakti love of God.
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You have touched on an interesting thought.

This quote comes from the "Dawnbreakers"

"Be thankful to God for having enabled you to recognise His Cause. Whoever has received this blessing must, prior to his acceptance, have performed some deed which though he himself was unaware of its character, was ordained by God as a means whereby he has been guided to find and embrace the Truth......"

Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
Perhaps human beings are not equipped to experience the totality of reality. We experience our small part of the full reality through the evidence of our five material senses, and perhaps there are more subtle senses too, that some people have more than others.

Perhaps sometimes in a person’s life there is the brief experience of the ‘touch of the divine’ lasting only a short time because for it to continue would be too much. But the effects of that touch go on to reverberate down through all the parts of our being for a long time afterwards.
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True, we are not equipped to experience the totality of reality. We cannot be atoms and molecules. We cannot be void, 'absolute nothing', if it all has arisen from that. We can imagine 'divine', it is actually a surrender, our inability to understand reality. We all have the same format. No one has any extra senses.
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
This quote comes from the "Dawnbreakers"
"Be thankful to God for having enabled you to recognise His Cause. Whoever has received this blessing must, prior to his acceptance, have performed some deed which though he himself was unaware of its character, was ordained by God as a means whereby he has been guided to find and embrace the Truth ...."
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What is your evidence for existence of any God or messenger (manifestation)? What is his cause for creating the universe? Is believing in falsehood a blessing? Do you have anything other than quotes from your uneducated 19th Century Iranian, Husayn Ali Nuri who claimed to be a manifestation of Allah without providing any evidence other than the visit of a 'Heavenly Maiden' while being in an Iranian jail for four months? How did he know that the woman who appeared in jail was a maiden, a virgin or unmarried?
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
You have touched on an interesting thought.

This quote comes from the "Dawnbreakers"

"Be thankful to God for having enabled you to recognise His Cause. Whoever has received this blessing must, prior to his acceptance, have performed some deed which though he himself was unaware of its character, was ordained by God as a means whereby he has been guided to find and embrace the Truth......"

Regards Tony
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:) "Somewhere in my youth, or childhood, I must have done something good."

- Maria, in "The Sound of Music"
 
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