Religion of love?

[wil]

Is it really that hard to love your neighbour?

Depends on the neughbor...but fences do help.

 

[nitinbaisoya]

According to me, The true religion of love is about compassion, kindness, and unity beyond labels. It reminds us that love is the highest spiritual path — no matter what belief system we follow.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Do you think usury and money manipulation come out of blasphemy? Or non-adherence to religion?

Disrespect of religion in society .. which blasphemy fuels.

I don't see any connection between religion and how the financial system works, sorry. If you want me to see it fine, but you will need to make a stronger cause and effect case.

Do you think those abuses were or are absent in more religious societies?

You didn't address this one? If you clearly find financial systems to be historicallyconsistently more beneficent to the general public under religious societies, this could help you make your case.

Is there any correlation between one's religion and one's behavior in the financial sector?

I don't think that is the correct question..
A better question would be "Is usury blessed by G-d?"
..and "Why is the global financial system based on usury?"

Oh, I DO think my question was a valid question. The other questions you mention you are also welcome to ask. Why not my question AND your questions? Surely you don't mean to replace my question or squeeze it out?

Have there been any studies? (on brokers or bankers or venture capitalists or hedge fund operators or...?)
Can you name examples or cases?

..such studies would be discarded by Western economists ..

But what I asked was, have there been any? Could you quote some to support your point?

It is such major sin that creates enmity and war .. the haves and the have-nots

You could make that case I think. There are also loads of non-religious people who disapprove of the wealth gap. They would likely make a different case for how it came about.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't see any connection between religion and how the financial system works..

..probably because you do not see usury as a major issue..

Oh, I DO think my question was a valid question. The other questions you mention you are also welcome to ask. Why not my question AND your questions? Surely you don't mean to replace my question or squeeze it out?

OK then .. answer to your question: yes.

But what I asked was, have there been any? Could you quote some to support your point?

No, I can't .. or more accurately, won't.

You could make that case I think. There are also loads of non-religious people who disapprove of the wealth gap. They would likely make a different case for how it came about.

..which is probably why it is never solved..
i.e. the gap continues to increase

A quick AI search produced:
For Marx, usury was a parasite on production that centralized wealth by lending money, not creating it, thus impeding the development of industrial capital and making conditions worse for laborers and producers. He argued that the interest generated by usury does not create new value but rather siphons existing wealth, exacerbating social inequality and creating social tension, though he also noted its historical role in the transition from feudalism to capitalism.

..so it is not just "religious fundamentalists" who recognise the evils of usury..

 

[TheLightWithin]

..probably because you do not see usury as a major issue..

What?
Why wouldn't I?
I think a great many financial processes are open to severe criticism and need for revision and reform.
You don't have to be coming from any particularly religious stance to think so however.
I'm STILL not seeing you draw any direct connection between religious belief and the problems of the world economy.

There are also loads of non-religious people who disapprove of the wealth gap. They would likely make a different case for how it came about.

..which is probably why it is never solved..
i.e. the gap continues to increase

I don't follow your reasoning. You aren't really spelling your reasoning out.

A quick AI search produced:
For Marx, usury was a parasite on production that centralized wealth by lending money, not creating it, thus impeding the development of industrial capital and making conditions worse for laborers and producers. He argued that the interest generated by usury does not create new value but rather siphons existing wealth, exacerbating social inequality and creating social tension, though he also noted its historical role in the transition from feudalism to capitalism.

..so it is not just "religious fundamentalists" who recognise the evils of usury..

Precisely my point.
In fact never in my life did I ever say, nor would I ever have guessed, that even one single solitary "religious fundamentalist" has ever once even remotely recognized the evils of "usury"

Actually to my knowledge religious fundamentalists rarely mention usury or any unhappiness with the economic system.
We cannot really explore it as it goes too far into politics, but in my country (USA) the coalition of the capitalist class and religious fundamentalists into one political party and outlook has made it such that there seems to be NO religious objection WHATSOEVER to "usury" - which even though you did not define what you meant by usury, or because you did not define it, I am comfortable conflating the term "usury" with capitalism or at least the worst abuses of capitalism.

An no connection whatsoever to "blasphemy"
Nor do I see any evidence whatsoever that any blasphemy laws, that limit freedom of religion and speech, have ever done one single thing to protect the poor from the greed of the rich.

 

[muhammad_isa]

In fact never in my life did I ever say, nor would I ever have guessed, that even one single solitary "religious fundamentalist" has ever once even remotely recognized the evils of "usury"..

I think you refer to Christian fundamentalists..
In Islam, usury is prohibited (haram).

Usury is also mentioned in the OT as being forbidden. It was a source of trouble in Europe
between Jews and Christians, as the Holy Roman Empire outlawed usury .. things changed
after the Reformation, of course.

Islam is neither politically right or left .. it encourages trade, and forbids usury, which
is basically defined as unreasonable increase .. moderate profits on the sale of goods is ok .. but
"the sale of money" is not.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I think you refer to Christian fundamentalists..

They're the ones I'm most familiar with

In Islam, usury is prohibited (haram).

Good to know

moderate profits on the sale of goods is ok .. but
"the sale of money" is not.

Capitalism should not sit as easily with Christianity and/or Christians as it seems to

 

[Aupmanyav]

Sale of money, usury, may lessen the economic difference between people, like the help to small shopkeepers and businessmen in India. They get bank loans, no guarantee reuired, increase their business and wealth and return the loan with whatever reasonable interest that is charged. Is that bad?

 

[iBrian]

Is that bad?

Would it be better if there was no interest to be repaid?

 

[Aupmanyav]

We have some schemes like that too.

 

[muhammad_isa]

We have some schemes like that too.

You haven't answered the question..

 

[Aupmanyav]

You haven't answered the question..

We hve to safeguard the investment also, otherwise there will be no money to lend. So, mortgage something. And if the loan is not returned, sell what was mortgaged.

 

[muhammad_isa]

We hve to safeguard the investment also, otherwise there will be no money to lend. So, mortgage something. And if the loan is not returned, sell what was mortgaged.

..still not answered the question..
i.e. Would it be better if there was no interest to be repaid?

 

[Clobbernocky]

Both the Bible and Koran tell us to love one another.

Is this to the exclusion of non believers?

But ya gotta get the details from the Kama Sutra.

Detailed instructions in love?

But seriously, where are your boundaries issues with loving your neighbor?

Love in virtue, or merciful love, or perhaps love of souls that one does not know as of yet?

 

[Aupmanyav]

..still not answered the question..
i.e. Would it be better if there was no interest to be repaid?

I think I have answered the question. If money is not given to the right persons, it is lost. There has to be control on what is being done with the money and how the money will be returned.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I think I have answered the question.

Well, I don't. I think you are avoiding the answer i.e. yes or no

There has to be control on what is being done with the money and how the money will be returned.

Meaningless. Money is not a commodity (or should not be) .. it is a medium of exchange.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"However, not all Muslims agree with the "orthodox" formulation that any and all interest- including contemporary "bank interest" (as opposed to interest charged in predatory, unfair or abusive lending) - constitutes riba."

Riba - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bay' bithman 'ajil
Bay' al-Ina
Bay' al-Tawarruq
I think, these are not much different than Riba. I am not a banker or an economist to comment authorittively on all this. Islam has tried to avoid Riba but I do not think they have succeeded completely.

But why did Muhammad/Allah/Quran/Islam made Riba haram may be because the Arabs had taken loans from Jews and Christians. Muhammad/Allah/Quran/Islam made all that haram with just one fiat.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why did Muslims had to think of alternatives? Because, they became lords of many lands in time, became rich and had money to spend or lend.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I am not a banker or an economist..

You don't have to be, to understand a simple question..

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is not a simple question. That is why Islam has three options and various views.
Then it depends on the availability of money and that is why Central Bankers change the interest rates when necessary.
It is beyond me, it may not be that for you. IMHO, a limit of 12% interest is the best solution.