Quantum1982
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Jesus is coming back soon to rapture the true believers.
It's likely that the Jehovah's Witnesses will be left behind.
It's likely that the Jehovah's Witnesses will be left behind.
Rapture
- Thread starter Quantum1982
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The only people that will be "left behind" is those that deny his authority.
Welcome to the forum by the way.
Quantum1982
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Thanks
I forgot to mention that Muslims will be left behind also.
Many Seventh day adventists and also Mormons.
I forgot to mention that Muslims will be left behind also.
Many Seventh day adventists and also Mormons.
Tony Bristow-Stagg
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I see judgement day is applicable to all Christians, of all denominations, as who can say they are the "true" beleivers?
It could very well be, that the vast majority of those that are part of Christianity will have to see this event in a new way, as this event is now mainly historic, It commenced in 1844.
The Seventh Day Adventist founder, William Miller, got the year right, 1844. IMHO. Indeed many sold up and donned their ascension robes on the predicted day, that day then became the great disappointment.
The unfortunate fact is, that they did not understand what they needed to look for, that faith requires us to search and choose, we need to look for the Messiah, and when we find, we can submit and be raised in faith.
Regards Tony
Well three things, friend @Quantum1982 –
The first is we here at Interfaith represent a discussion forum, rather than a soapbox, and if you want to stand and shout at people, then maybe you're in the wrong place? As an introduction, in some quarters your comment might be likened to 'fighting talk', in which case you'll very quickly be shown the door ...
The second is, in my less-hopeful moments I wonder if indeed none of us with be raptured, in that the quota of 'true believers' was reached long ago, and that religious representation today is so tied into social and political positions as to render the term 'true' as questionable.
The third is, if we look to Scripture for who's in and who ain't, then Matthew 25 says:
"Come, you blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the cosmos. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you gave me hospitality, naked and you clothed me, I was ill and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to me."
So that's what get's you raptured – nothing here about church, and nothing saying this church is in, and that one is not – there's a lot of people who believe they hold a guaranteed ticket and, I fear, they are in for a very rude awakening.
Maybe ... the measure of how righteous we think we are is actually the measure of how far we're off the mark.
'Judge not lest ye be judged', ... 'love they neighbour' and all that.
And just maybe everybody gets raptured, because if there's just one left behind, then Jesus might think He's failed ...
just saying ...
Quantum1982
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John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God
OK. Read John 14:23.
Sorry, chum, but as a mod I suggest you read this as a polite, second warning.
You are welcome to discuss, and those discussions can be 'spirited', but if you're just here to preach at people, then I suggest you take your soapbox elsewhere.
Quantum1982
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Well that means the discussion should be about the authenticity of the Bible?
Well that's a huge discussion and there's a number of points we could discuss there.
Is the Bible absolutely inerrant, for one.
But in this instance, the discussion is really about how we choose to interpret what we read, as you and I can tread the same text, and draw, I'm guessing, different conclusions.
Is the Bible absolutely inerrant, for one.
But in this instance, the discussion is really about how we choose to interpret what we read, as you and I can tread the same text, and draw, I'm guessing, different conclusions.
Quantum1982
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Yes. It comes down to whether one accepts that Jesus is God.
Christianity claims that there is only one way to the Father.
Unfortunately there has also been a lot of perversion of scripture in the form of Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventism and Mormonism.
Christianity claims that there is only one way to the Father.
Unfortunately there has also been a lot of perversion of scripture in the form of Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventism and Mormonism.
Quite.
And I, as a Catholic, regard every other denomination, other than Catholic and the Orthodox Patriarchates, as being not so much a perversion – that's too strong a term – as a mis-interpretation.
But that does not mean I assume only we Catholics will be 'caught up', along with a few very good Orthodox, and so on ...
If you'll give me a minute, I'll offer a reading...
The word 'rapture' come from 1 Thessalonians 4:17, the Latin raptura ('to seize" or "kidnap"), a translation of the Greek harpazō ('to snatch away' or 'catch up'). However, in Thessalonians, as in Paul's First Letter to the Corinthians (15:50-54), both these refer to the coming of Christ at the Judgement, the Parousia, when all will be judged, according to the text I cited above, Matthew 25.
The common and popular idea of a 'pre-tribulation rapture' – as an event before and separate from the Second Coming is not found in ancient Christianity and as far as I can see, is not supported by Scripture.
The Rapture is generally traced to the 1830s, to John Nelson Darby, a founder of the Plymouth Brethren, which makes it – and the idea of Dispensationalism – very new interpretations. It seems to have taken off in the United States, eg Hal Lindsey's The Late, Great Planet Earth (1970), and found a home in American evangelicalism.
Most major denominations, and the most rest of the world, do not subscribe to it.
Family calls ... logging off now.
The common and popular idea of a 'pre-tribulation rapture' – as an event before and separate from the Second Coming is not found in ancient Christianity and as far as I can see, is not supported by Scripture.
The Rapture is generally traced to the 1830s, to John Nelson Darby, a founder of the Plymouth Brethren, which makes it – and the idea of Dispensationalism – very new interpretations. It seems to have taken off in the United States, eg Hal Lindsey's The Late, Great Planet Earth (1970), and found a home in American evangelicalism.
Most major denominations, and the most rest of the world, do not subscribe to it.
Family calls ... logging off now.
Quantum1982
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True.
I just feel that God would like to remove His people from Earth before the terrible horrors of the tribulation.
I just feel that God would like to remove His people from Earth before the terrible horrors of the tribulation.
wil
UNeyeR1
I wonder why you think he is coming soon.
(Since billions have thought that during their entire lifetimes for over two thousand years)
Maybe a definition of soon should be in order.
Interesting how you point out others who won't go....will you and your group and what group might that be?
Are there any members of your group that won't be selected and do you point at them in meetings like you name names here? Would Jesus approve of your actions in this manner do ya think?
What is the purpose of your post?
Quantum1982
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Well I believe that many believers won't be ready for the rapture.
The Jehovah Witnesses don't believe that Jesus is God. They don't believe in the trinity or the lake of fire.
One has to be very close to the Lord in order to be ready.
Mormons don't believe in the lake of fire either.
The Jehovah Witnesses don't believe that Jesus is God. They don't believe in the trinity or the lake of fire.
One has to be very close to the Lord in order to be ready.
Mormons don't believe in the lake of fire either.
wil
UNeyeR1
And what makes you think this is gonna occur soon?
Quantum1982
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Bible says there will be signs.
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 23&version=KJV
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 23&version=KJV
talib-al-kalim
Well-Known Member
He says, you should live according to His commandments and give absolute priority to God and the life in God now in your life. Read e.g. Mt 5-7 for a summary.
There are those who claim to believe but are only interested in making money. Don't follow them.
There are many who tell you "we are good and the others are evil. Hate them and destroy them.
Do not, but love your enemies to the extent that they may see their errors if they are in error, and listen so that you may see your error, if you are in error.
Those who trust in God and act accordingly are with Him and they will not loose Him even after failure and regret.
So, don't judge, don't fear but do good in faith.
wil
UNeyeR1
Is there a reason you dont wish to provide the name of the church that has got you on this cut and paste mission?
This is a discussion board, your thoughts, your answers are encouraged. We all have access to biblegatway and many of us dozens of texts in our homes.
What we are interested in is your interpretation, your belief system.
This is a discussion board, your thoughts, your answers are encouraged. We all have access to biblegatway and many of us dozens of texts in our homes.
What we are interested in is your interpretation, your belief system.