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Never mentioned Chabad. I was addressing the issue of what counts as an intermediary. That is directly relevant your claims about Christianity. It was to give a clear illustration, rather than deal with vague notions, about the ambiguity of Jewish tradition on the question of intermediaries. The...

Only one of my arguments relies on that position, which is that our earliest written source we have for the Noahide Laws is the mishna and so any claim that they're earlier is making a lot of assumptions. You are claiming that the Noahide laws are reliable and other Jewish tradition, unreliable...

Joe, I'm not certain but I don't really see how that's relevant either. -- Dauer

I think Moses would have argued that paying attention to bushes is pretty important, Adam that paying attention to trees is pretty important. If you don't understand the details then you may get a false picture of the gestalt. If a person appreciates the details, it may become evident that the...

My point is only to say that the issue may be a lot broader and more nuanced than the one you've presented. If you're speaking of the 7 noahide laws then you're already looking to the Jewish community for guidance. It's expressed in the mishna. Regarding the noahide laws, looking to the Jewish...

Shawn, Okay but from a halachic standpoint, what qualifies as a person (more accurately, to encompass the nature of the debate, we should understand this more broadly than "person" as even the sefirot were seen as an issue) between oneself and God is debatable. I brought up the example of...

Shawn, I'm aware of all that. I don't see how it addresses my previous post.

Shawn, I don't disagree. However, previously you said "The thing is when one starts discussing covenants then we are into legal terrain and they deal with absolutes, so that is why I write it that way." which appears to be in conflict with what you're now stating. Maybe a resolution of that...

The question doesn't even have to go that far. Just by defining terms you end up with different ways in which it all would apply. You also have to recall the agadah where Moses listens to R' Akiva teaching Torah and doesn't understand what he's talking about, but R' Akiva is in the right...

That's not always the case. In the way halachah is understood and applied there is variation. In this case, as in most of halachah, there are multiple opinions about what is required. I think you mean that, if you accept a particular opinion as binding for one reason or another then it is...

Shawn, that's certainly true and I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong. The only reason I responded to this post is your phrasing: That comes across as a fairly absolutist statement and Jewish opinions on the noahide laws vary. Your belief may be stated above, but that doesn't mean that...

Shawn, okay, but the actual nature of what is meant by the noahide laws and whether or not we are bound to accept them ourselves or qualify by accidentally following them is all still relevant and debatable nuance. Your issue regarding the bindingness of the noahide laws doesn't seem to dispute...

shawn, good for them. That doesn't mean that the noahide laws are earlier nor is their opinion somehow more Jewish. It is merely one Jewish opinion and currently a minority opinion. I wouldn't expect that at either of those forums you'd find much disagreement on that matter. I also don't expect...

Oh you mean the other context, eg l'olam va'ed. Okay so what's your point? How is that related to what I said?

shawn, if you accept the biblical narrative as historically accurate, maybe, (I don't) but the first mention of the noahide laws is in the mishna. There is a similar list in the GT but I don't remember the reference. Regardless, all explicit references to the Noahide laws that I'm aware of are...

World. Kabbalistically it's sometimes also sometimes connected to the word alam. Why?

shawn, The 7 noahide laws are Jewish in origin, as you're aware. There are multiple Jewish perspectives as to whether or not a Christian can also be a Noahide. Depends who you ask. For many hasidic groups, the living rebbe acts in a similar fashion. For a select couple of groups, the dead rebbe...

lol you got that vibe too? It was the particular smiley he uses excessively that made me think in that direction. The IP's are similar enough that it's probably him on two diff computers, same network. Good call!

I vas vondering the same thing for other reasons. So I checked and, wherever he's from, US IP. Incidentally, my family really did brew beer when they were in Austria.

Linda, it gets interesting later in the book when Patai tries to show how goddess worship could never be entirely squashed. Also, when he discusses the Divine feminine in kabbalah and the archetypal ways in which she's represented, he suggests that she has more in common with ancient near...