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ah, you've hit on something important here, imo. As soon as there are "do this, don't do that" rules, people, being people, will start playing those games with the rules. I'm sure you are familiar with this kind of thing: "Ah, but when it says Thou shalt not kill, does that apply in *this*...

bandit, Uh. I don't think that it's stretching anything to see a causal relationship between the "literal vs liberal" thread in the Christianity forum, wherein you put everyone on notice that you intended to start up similar threads on other religious forums (IMO to prove some sort of point...

I'm very much enjoying catching up with this discussion, but it's turning into a monologue, from my perspective. I have things to do away from the house today...hopefully when I get back there will be dialogue happening. :)

Well, I'm a theist of a type (panentheist) and I don't share that view either. We can divide religious views a lot of different ways, using different razors to make the divisions. One of them is this: In some religions the Divine is separate from Nature, Man is separate from Nature, and the...

This begs the question: Is morality not to be found in societies without "a great history and culture and religion"? And who deterines the "greatness' of same?

A harsh and judgemental one; when there is little wiggle room for survival, our perception of "God" reflects that, IMO. Which may be a contributing factor in the variety of ways in which people living in different places perceive the Divine. Or not. But I think it does.

Animals are hard-wired with survival techniques. Humans have this hard-wiring too, but it's not enough to guarantee our survival. We're not strong enough, or fast enough, or fierce enough to compete based on those characteristic alone. We have to think our way through things, and we have to...

Re: The Moral Animal I think it's important to *recognize* our animal nature; if we don't, then we may be very confused not only by the behavior of our fellows, but by our own behavior. Certainly we have more than the hard-wired pack animal behaviors from which to choose. Choice is the...

Lunamoth, I *like* that answer! To put this into more familiar terms for anyone who has taken logic classes (and thereby, I hope, clarify): If A, then B. If not-A, then _______ The answer is "No way to tell". So, back to the Rede. Again: "An it harm none, do as you will". If A, then B...

Well, I have to take issue with that last. Committing a "lesser evil" is not good. It is still evil. It may be neccessary, but that doesn't make it good. Causing harm - intentional and avoidable harm - is evil. It may be that one *has* to do this in order to, oh, spare a child. I would...

Funny, Q. Anyone else want to take a stab at it?

*wry smile* I'm reasonably certain that this got lost in my other posts today, so I'll re-post it:

I don't know where you got this, but it is well cone. A minor (well, maybe not so minor) divergence here - Gods arising from a fear of death. yes, some of them. Others have nothing to do with the fear of death, but the joy of living, the bounty of Nature, the rose rather than the thorns.

*chuckle* I have no idea what would be easier - I'm only up to page 6 of 27 so far. Well, no; I think that it will be easier for me to stick with this thread rather than jump between two of them. I suspect that my responses are somewhat disjointed at this point, as it's taken me this long to...

I'm just quoting this so I can find it again; I'll respond whe I have more time. Side note: GOSH, what a lot of posts on this topic!!!

First I think we'l need to define our terms. Which nature based relgions do you assert derive their morality from nature? And, what on this good green Earth do you mean by the question "Can nature based religions still jutify spirit if they claim scientific validation"???? That one has me...

I will have to get a copy of this book, thank you for mentioning it. :)

This made me chuckle. There a lot of folks out there in the wide world who join Neo-Pagan groups because they think it's "cool" or becasue they are rebelling against something, or some equally odd reason. ~shrug~ There's a LOT of misinformation out there, too. One thing to keep in mind is that...

Very close to Paganism. Excepting perhaps that bit about "patterns laid down in mythic time". Most Pagans, even strict reconstructionists, realize that things are not now as they were in neolithic times. ;) ******** Note: There have already been at least a dozen posts I'd like to respond...

Forgive me if my comments are late (I only was directed to this topic lately), and if they are lengthy. I'll get back to Paganism and the relationship of Nature's laws to human morality in a bit. To begin, though, the views expressed above are *very* similar to the Pagan worldview. Although...