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Sometimes we are forced to sign things, even if we don't agree with them.

Well, line 17 should not have been written, then. ;)

As I can see? Well, as you seem to like essays so much, what about this one? To think that John was heavily used by the proto-orthodox and yet remained uncommented upon until the time of Irenaeus is not an easy idea to accept without question. Why, many have asked, would the Gospel of John...

OK Well, that would then be the history .. that particular creed would have been enforced on the Empire. ..and I doubt very much whether the Gospel of John would have been included in the Bible, if that was the case. ..but as we know, it wasn't the case.

No, you are not. Right. Mmm .. perhaps we should drop the subject then. As I say, we have too much in common to fall out due to schism. :)

I wouldn't.. I think that it depends on the intention behind such an action. ..and when you say "Islam's history", are you referring to conquests or political interference of creeds? I realise it is only "a starting point".. but it provides refs. You are entitled to "follow the official line"...

We are both on the same page then. :)

If that is how you see it.. I have not seen our discussion as "a critique of Islam", as only you bring up this subject upon my criticism of the enforcement of a creed by the Roman Empire. Muhammad was not born until the 6th. century, whilst we are/were discussing the 4th. and 5th. centuries...

What? That the opinion of Jesus' Divinity expressed in the prologue of the Gospel of John was NOT enforced on those that opposed it? How so? 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. .. 14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.. - Gospel of...

No, of course not. ..but it employs the scientific method, and is not confined to essays written by one party. Yes, so one would expect a bias towards a Catholic viewpoint, if anything, because there are more of those than anybody else. :D Do you know how wikipedia is organised? ..or are you...

That's mere word-play.. I do not believe that Origen believed that Jesus created the universe, for example.

..but I am not judging individuals here .. I am judging the elite, by their actions. Clearly, the main rift between Islam and Christianity is the very issue we are discussing. You can "dress it up" however you like, but it all comes back to the enforcement of a particular belief in Jesus'...

I don't disagree with that, but it is "neutral ground", and substantial. OK

It's not hard to guess. I'm not impressed by the way that Roman Emperors harnessed Christians, and enforced a certain creed. The lagacy has gone on to the present day. You claim that the Roman Empire eventually ended up with "the right creed". What a coincidence. They just happened to persecute...

If a person prefers to get all their information from a sectarian website, then that is their own business. ..but I don't see that as a "valuable tool" to determine truth. :)

..then I shall "bow out" of such discourse, because I see no point in a discussion based on sectarian websites of any particular denomination. Strange that I should be reasonably happy with wikipedia, but others aren't. As far as I'm aware, wikipedia is not limited to certain sectarian...

Do you think that we can stick to wikipedia and its references, please? Quoting from websites that are clearly biased in favour of one party is not a good idea. From your ref. The original essays on this site are intended to be consistent with Holy Scripture and the Sacred Tradition of the...

Very "apt" to put this in the pagan section.. ;) Only-begotten Son .. sometimes called "Justinian's Hymn", and/or the "Hymn of the Incarnation", was composed around the 4th or 5th centuries.

Too right .. the Latin "translation" is known to be unreliable. The vast majority of the text has only survived in a heavily abridged Latin translation produced by Tyrannius Rufinus in 397. Rufinus was convinced that Origen's original treatise had been interpolated by heretics and that these...

As I say .. that's the claim .. that it all started with Arius and some people started following him. You can believe that if you want, but I don't. This is where we left off in the other thread. I asked if you could show me what Origen "believed" from his original writings .. so far, you have...