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arthra, Yes but the oldest quran we have happens to have been found in Yemen so that's all we've got to go on. Doesn't matter what tradition teaches, all that matters is the hard evidence. Yes, many of the companions who had memorised the Quran had died. So many were dying, in fact, that...

Popeyesays, if you scroll back to my first post in this thread you will see that I already linked to that article (in a non-pdf format). Here it is again, in HTML: http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/quran1.html The Wikipedia (not anti-islam) article on the quran notes this about the...

Yes, it is true that muslims back in the early years made great attempts to memorise the quran however all this is irrelevant since we have hard evidence that the oldest quran is different to the current quran. All this stuff about how the early followers would have memorised things is just...

Friend, I think you have a few mistakes (or misconceptions) in your post. I googled and found an (islamic) site that gives a general gist of the history. The site is called Proof of the Preservation of the Quran. You said: Yes, five copies were originally made by Uthman. These were sent to...

Friend said: This particular hadith was related by ibn-Mayah in "Kitabu'l Sunan" with Sahih Muslim, page 740. But there's other hadith Muslim (page 501) says: The first quote he gives there does not appear in the quran. Another tradition states (Sahih Muslim, page 912, Mishkat II...

It's not the original quran. There isn't an original quran (in the sense you mean it). The quran was written down on lots of different materials, just whatever people had available at the time. Uthman, (the third caliph after Mohammed died) collected it all together into one book and that's the...

Well that actual copy of the quran dates from the ninth century according to the wikipedia article on the quran. About 150 years after the death of Mohammed. The oldest quran we have was found by workmen in 1972 in the roof of the Great Mosque in Yemen. This quran dates to the late seventh...

Hello to all. I have some questions regarding shariah and what it would look like in an ideal world. I hope some of you may be able to help me. I understand that, in an ideal Islamic country, it would fall to the government (and ultimately the police) to implement and enforce various...

Schizo said: Not at all. It's just that you didn't address my point. You said: So no one can accuse someone else of adultery because there will never be four witnesses. So what's the point of mentioning it in the quran then? Why does the quran bother to define a crime and then stipulate...

bananabrain said: The first human who ever picked up a rock and fashioned it into an axe was using individual-centred reasoning. It's not a new thing. The world is made up of lots of individuals. Crowd mentality isn't any better than individual mentality. 2 billion people believe...

bananabrain said: Islam is unlike those other things though because it has a wider scope. It seeks to implement a universal legal system that applies to all who live under it's jurisdiction (both muslims and non-muslims). Therefore if it's gonna propose a legal system, it had better be a...

Mohsin said: Jesus never denied his divinity either, even when directly asked about it. In John 20:28, Jesus lets Thomas call Him "my Lord and my God" without correction or clarification. As regards the trinity idea, the understanding is that Jesus as God the Son is eternally begotten of...

bananabrain said: You misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about marrying for love. Marrying for love is a different thing. I was just talking about marriage, full stop. All forms of marriage are considered to be a lifelong emotional commitment whether you marry for love or whether you have an...

bananabrain said: A marriage is not just an economic transaction though, a business deal. It is first and foremost an emotional commitment. You can't just ignore the emotional aspect to marriage since that is the main component. All this other stuff about how each partner is treated and...

Mohsin said: I don't understand your logic here Mohsin. First you say that God can do anything but then you say that there is something that God cannot do. If God can do anything then he can do anything (including taking on human form if he wishes). Beats me, I don't understand it...

Avinash said: It's true that they have things in common. But they also have differences and these differences don't progress on from one another. To give a (probably really stupid) example: Circumcision is essential (judaism) ---> circumcision is unnecessary (christianity) --->...

Mohsin: I was brought up catholic but now I have no religion. I'm not an atheist though, I think there could well be a God. Atheists think that since there is no proof of God then the most logical position to take is to believe that there isn't a God. I don't see the logic in that argument...

Schizo: Maybe I haven't explained myself clearly enough. Maybe I've not been precise enough. I'm not arguing that because some countries use the four witnesses rule then that is somehow correct. I agree with you - these countries are almost certainly in error (even from an islamic...

Schizo: Hmm...not sure I quite agree with you there. I don't think it means that there will always be a certain number of muslims following the correct way, otherwise how could you base a law on it? Suppose this group of muslims who are following the correct way were some small...

Schizo: It's because this is what we were talking about before you came along. I was positing that the position of islam on rape has to disqualify islam from being divine because it doesn't make sense, however you try to define it. Here's a couple of pages that discuss it: Link and...