Apathy contributed to the Holocaust?

[Dondi]

Been reading a book called "Witness to the Holocaust" by Michael Berenbaum and was struck by what went on at the Conference at Evian in 1938. It seems the Nazi's were actually attempting to export Jews out of their country, but were met with resistance by prospectable countries to take them in. The Conference at Evian was Roosevelt's attempt to study the issue. But I'm quite appauled that there was little participation among the 33 nations attending.

The U.S. for one, didn't even send a secretary or even an undersecretary to the conference and instead Roosevelt send a close friend and business executive, Myron C. Taylor. In his speech, Taylor cited that the U.S. is being asked to harbor the Jews "at a time when there is serious unemployment in many countries, when there is a shrinkage of subsistence bases, and when the population of the world is at a peak."

Granted the U.S. was suffering from the depression, and I'm sure felt that to import some Jews would exaperate the load. I'm sure other countries were feeling the same bite. (According to this statistic, the U.S. had the lowest totals of immigration from 1931 to 1946 since the 1820s, at 0.4).

So consequently, the Nazis had no where to send the Jews, so evidently dealt with them in their own manner, and of course we all know what happened next.

Had those nations at the Evian conference foreseen the coming holocaust, would they have changed their minds? did they even know what was going on with the persecution of Jews in Germany, Austria, Czechoslavokia, and every other country the Nazi's occupied?

BTW, if you feel this ought to be in the Politics and Society forum, please feel free to move it.

 

[wil]

I would think the reason the other countries wouldn't take Jews that Germany wanted to move was two fold...one that despite the atrocity of living in the ghettos it was home, and imaginations that it could be worse had they moved someplace else.

Second, I wouldn't say it was apathy that wouldn't take the Jews but anti-semitism.

The more I learned about the treatment of Jews prior to the holocaust..the life in the ghetto...I'm appalled. How we as humans can take pride in moving away from slavery yet keep a people so oppressed is beyond my understanding.

I can't fathom having my life ruled so atrociously, having to wear a symbol on my clothing so I can always be identified as a Jew.

Of course it wasn't until the 60s we began eliminating segragation in the country. And when I read about treatment of Blacks, Natives, Jews, (and Asian, Italian, Irish, and today still Hispanic immigrants) I often wonder if we deserve the title 'human'.

 

[Avi]

So consequently, the Nazis had no where to send the Jews, so evidently dealt with them in their own manner, and of course we all know what happened next.

This sounds like some sort of rationalization for genocide.

 

[nativeastral]

yes unfortunately demonizing of the jews and later of the muslims was perpetuated by 'christendom' the religion of love. perhaps the reason now of doing little in the middle east [guilt] as well as greed [perpetual greed for fuel rather than investing in other forms of energy,especially solar].

 

[Bishadi]

Oooops! Seems someone was reading a biased set of interpretations

I would think the reason the other countries wouldn't take Jews that Germany wanted to move was two fold...one that despite the atrocity of living in the ghettos it was home, and imaginations that it could be worse had they moved someplace else.

What ghettos?

The jewish people owned the businesses and banks and when hitler wanted to re-arm germany (1935), the jewish business leaders would not.

That is why the regime turned against the jewish people as they were bound to their religion over the republic of germany.

That is the first fact most should research before taking a side on the subject.

Second, I wouldn't say it was apathy that wouldn't take the Jews but anti-semitism.

Wrong again! Apathy is how Israel was born!

it was apathy as to why the religious people were not returned to the lands of their births; no concern for others, just the reparation others thought was deserved.

The more I learned about the treatment of Jews prior to the holocaust..the life in the ghetto...I'm appalled. How we as humans can take pride in moving away from slavery yet keep a people so oppressed is beyond my understanding.

WOW!

I am appalled to read such material as it is blantantly biased and short sighted from reality!

The jewish people, like now and then, always prided on the social collective of education, money, and welfare. They practically NEVER had ghettos style living unless them 'few' chose it, since practically biblical times.

Do not believe all that you may find in reading material.

I can't fathom having my life ruled so atrociously, having to wear a symbol on my clothing so I can always be identified as a Jew.

they do it now amongst themselves (star of david) and it is the "atrocities" of war that brought up this reference but in war and slavery across time, it was normal to brand....it was not an evil plot but the reoccuring historical pattern of war.

Why not look at Gaza for the last 70 years and ask yourself what is slum living, ghettos, oppression, corruption, abuse and phosphorus weapons..... etc etc etc.... You can't judge the population of 1.6 million for the atrocities of a few.

Such as you cannot condemn germans as a society for what occurred in WWII..... as then to even consider that, then each MUST judge Americans/Israelis for what is occuring NOW! (talk about war criminals)

The world is upside-down..... not a million, 2,5, 6.... but almost 6 billion are now to be observed and no religion is the cause and apathy is of first order based on beliefs, business and the intent of selfish pursuits over the truth of peace, compassion and true humanity.

Of course it wasn't until the 60s we began eliminating segragation in the country. And when I read about treatment of Blacks, Natives, Jews, (and Asian, Italian, Irish, and today still Hispanic immigrants) I often wonder if we deserve the title 'human'.

the segragation is becoming worse in israel, not better

and the segregation you say is reducing, is false in israel as the whole. The state is being geared to become a judaistic society bound to a faith

the exact thing much of the world is said to fear of Islamic shariah but from the other team.....

Sympathy was the tool used to gather funds and the US public to defy Britain with creating a state within an occupied region; Palestine.

It was apathy that purchased the old cruise liners that were filled with religious refugees and beached on palestine.

It is apathy that funds the state of israel at the expence of the american public and why 911 occurred as the other team is pissed that the free people of america would fund a 70 holocaust of gaza!

The WWII atrocities are not today's atrocities and what mankind should be focused on is NOW!

 

[Bishadi]

perhaps the best post from me on this subject is to have it deleted


The people of judaism were isolated by the nazis regime because they would not join the german intent to rearm itself

and since most of the religious folk of judaism were the weathiest population of germany, the regime took all assets and freedoms and isolated them from the population.


here is an interesting article

ONE OF THE central issues in modern Jewish history is the degree to which Jews have "assimilated," that is, abandoned the world of the traditional Jewish community in order to become integrated members of Western culture and society. In this excellent, well-documented, and extremely interesting book, the eminent British historian, Werner Mosse, has explored the limits of integration into German society of the very richest Jews in Germany, a group which should have had the best chance of all for full integration.


..........


The strength of Mosse's book lies in his depiction of the closed social world of the German-Jewish elite. He provides fascinating insight, for example, into the marriage strategies of wealthy German Jews, who maintained Jewish ethnic cohesion by parental "pre-selection" of suitable mates for their children. In the majority of cases, by controlling the sociability of their sons and daughters, wealthy Jews saw to it that their children married the offspring of other wealthy Jewish families, thus cementing already existing economic, social, and ethnic alliances, and thereby guaranteeing Jewish survival. Mosse shows that, unlike the Jewish middle class, the elite eschewed arranged marriages, rarely fussed about dowries, and sometimes married for love. Still, financial, familial, and ethnic concerns intersected to generate high endogamy rates.

its about the 1820-1935 period of german/jew

i believe it is best to learn more about the period than simply believe what people say.....

 

[bananabrain]

your argument here appears to be that german jews "refused" to assimilate, so therefore they had to be annihilated. is that correct? if so, how does that square with the nazis' idea that the jews were a "racial danger", intent on interbreeding with the "aryans" in order to "mongrelise" them?

The people of judaism were isolated by the nazis regime because they would not join the german intent to rearm itself

bollocks.

and since most of the religious folk of judaism were the weathiest population of germany, the regime took all assets and freedoms and isolated them from the population.

also bollocks. you don't seem capable of understanding the difference between assimilated and traditionally religious jews. also, hardly an argument that can be made against the impoverished jews of eastern europe, who were also being exterminated.

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[wil]

Namaste Bishadi,

I read about the ghettos...they existed long before Germany rearming itself. Unless I'm wrong ghettos were in force and Jews forced to mark themselves back when they were still creating armies for the crusades.

I've also read about the evils in Christianity of money and usery and lending...whereby interest was illegal (Islam still has this and has some interesting ways around it). Well thanx to that Jews were forced into banking, as they were not allowed in other fields of work and Christians needed loans for their businesses and farms...so in many respects Christians created the very wealth they later despised and made into social commentary against a people.

 

[Bishadi]

your argument here appears to be that german jews "refused" to assimilate,

not my opinion, it is what is written as well makes the most sense rather than believing that the reason was just hate.

i will never believe that the cause was simply hate.

Reality shows that any society can build hate over time. Look what american's did to the Japanese in wwII as japan bombed pearl harbor because of what the flying tigers were doing to them in china (but then again, how many knew about that)

if so, how does that square with the nazis' idea that the jews were a "racial danger", intent on interbreeding with the "aryans" in order to "mongrelise" them?

Hitler is said to be of jewish lineage, does that mean the mongrelise extent truly existed?

but no mind, 'what ever you say'.....

When i talk to you, i will let you know! Otherwise, you and i are not compatible as human beings, so please leave well enough alone.

you post items i do not approve of and i know i will post items you do not approve of but that does no mean you have a right to be abusive nor pull posts, nor even try to square up with me

you cannot win, never will and even to ban me and my little posts, be certain, the days of corruption are soon to be over.

i am so happy to see the unfolding all over the world, it just tickles me to no end.

also bollocks. you don't seem capable of understanding the difference between assimilated and traditionally religious jews. also, hardly an argument that can be made against the impoverished jews of eastern europe, who were also being exterminated.

b'shalom

bananabrain

or what about now?

ie..... you on a thread about the holocaust of wwII, when right now there is a holocaust of 2009; it has been going on for almost 70 years.

I know we as a species can correct and address today's atrocities but no one, not even God, can fix yesterday's.

And if honesty, compassion, truth and love what is required to begin a quality dialogue, then seems it is best to leave the old hate off the table, otherwise you leave yourself open to ridicule and a rude awakening!

Don't anyone ever believe that WWII was all about judaism as that fib has corrupted this earth far too long.

 

[Dondi]

The strength of Mosse's book lies in his depiction of the closed social world of the German-Jewish elite. He provides fascinating insight, for example, into the marriage strategies of wealthy German Jews, who maintained Jewish ethnic cohesion by parental "pre-selection" of suitable mates for their children. In the majority of cases, by controlling the sociability of their sons and daughters, wealthy Jews saw to it that their children married the offspring of other wealthy Jewish families, thus cementing already existing economic, social, and ethnic alliances, and thereby guaranteeing Jewish survival. Mosse shows that, unlike the Jewish middle class, the elite eschewed arranged marriages, rarely fussed about dowries, and sometimes married for love. Still, financial, familial, and ethnic concerns intersected to generate high endogamy rates.

In the first place, it is common practice and tradition for Jews to marry other Jews. It sorta preserves the bloodlines and the race/religion as a whole. They have been surviving like that since the beginning. As for the elitism, why shouldn't rich Jews marry rich Jews? There are social classes in just about every society. And as far as prearrangements, nobody's business but the parties involved.

I don't see how this plays into the Nazi regime to rearm itself. Are you saying that the Jews had too much money and therefore the Nazi government could not elict the funds to rebuild their military? Does that justify them robbing the Jews? Why not just tax like everyone else?

 

[wil]

not my opinion, it is what is written as well makes the most sense rather than believing that the reason was just hate.

i will never believe that the cause was simply hate....

Don't anyone ever believe that WWII was all about judaism as that fib has corrupted this earth far too long.

I don't think anti-semitism is about hate. I actually think it is more about envy, and think it still is today. However passion plays and Christians that run around 'the Jews killed Jesus' and think that we should do something about that to Jews today are fomenting, distilling and dispencing hate.

Last line...who the heck believes that WW2 was about judaism?? It was about world domination, about a little man with a power complex. Why did he get rid off the Jews...because of fear..and envy.

imo

 

[Bishadi]

I don't think anti-semitism is about hate. I actually think it is more about envy, and think it still is today.

name a single item that a human being can envy of a religion?

religions are for guidance, there is no 'envy' of a guidance and if someone wanted to learn and become jewish because it was such an envious desire of others, then why not assimilate as most any human can choose to do at any time.

However passion plays and Christians that run around 'the Jews killed Jesus' and think that we should do something about that to Jews today are fomenting, distilling and dispencing hate.

i disagree, as without the society known as america, which is predominately christian, the fermenting dispencers of hate would never have created israel if envy or the crucifixion was even considered.

I see the comment or ideals of envy as a politically motivated belief.
It was 'created' by the people who believe others are envious of them.

no one is envious of what happened in wwII and non alive can suggest envy is what motivated the actions of wwII as they are speculative and i know from my own experience, not a german person i ever met is or was envious of the religious people of judaism

Last line...who the heck believes that WW2 was about judaism??

you just above suggested that envy was a reason. As if it was why hitler hated the jewish believers......

Russia alone lost 12million plus souls and not one is pushing or requiring a law to recognize that as a holocaust.

i see any ideal of imposing law or order for the benefit of a religion or the people of a religion as being so unfortunate (in one breath), then come back and suggest it was envy as to why the oppression was imposed is just foolish to convey

this below is funny

Why did he get rid off the Jews...because of fear..and envy.

imo

an opinion and that is what it is.

Reality shows the depth and cause is far more rooted to business and property, than religious ideas or envy.

what the heck could they be envious of?

i just don't get that, a leader of a country began to uplift the minds of the population that was crushed in wwI and when he wanted to rearm the country (broke Versailles treaty) and the business owners did not want to, he turned on the populous of jewish residence.

Them people chose the fate by siding with the religion over their country.

Just as right now in Israel, they wish to impose to all people of Israel that they side with the 'jewish state' or they may be deported....

march 16 2009

Al Jazeera English - Middle East - Lieberman 'to be new Israel FM'

"The important point to note is that Yisrael Beiteinu agrees to a two-state solution, perhaps different from the kind of two-state solution that Palestinians might envisage.

"Lieberman's wants a pure Jewish state and anyone who doesn't pledge an oath of allegiance to Israel must be deported to another state alongside, which he sees as a Palestinian state," he said.
Lieberman's appointment as foreign minister raised concerns that Israel's international ties will be harmed.
Lieberman has been accused of being a racist demagogue because of his plans to require loyalty oaths from Israeli Arabs as a pre-condition for gaining citizenship.

now if hitler did the same thing........... what does that tell you?

is it that people are envious of palestinians?

 

[wil]

Interesting you bold what Al Jazeera's Mike Hanna in Jerusalem said that Lieberman wants but he didn't provide any quotes to indicate that Lieberman wants that. Around here we call that heresay and inadmissable. Now of course it also begs the question why you think we should take what an Arab reporter thinks a Jewish man wants as fact.

Again, I think some people are envious of Jews and not Judaism. They see that someone has what is percieved to be an advantage. Awfully interesting when we see the persecuted as advantaged...it happens.

Now I am no historian but I think the main reason the holocaust is called what it is and is so frightening is the methodology they did not die in war...buildings were built to kill them, they were herded into camps and to their deaths systematically.

Reality shows the depth and cause is far more rooted to business and property, than religious ideas or envy.
...
i just don't get that, a leader of a country began to uplift the minds of the population that was crushed in wwI and when he wanted to rearm the country (broke Versailles treaty) and the business owners did not want to, he turned on the populous of jewish residence.

Are you kidding me, so you are siding with Hitler, europe and the world should have rolled over to facism?

Your twisting of history and my words is quite interesting and begs the question...

What is your agenda?

 

[Bishadi]

Interesting you bold what Al Jazeera's Mike Hanna in Jerusalem said that Lieberman wants but he didn't provide any quotes to indicate that Lieberman wants that. Around here we call that heresay and inadmissable.

The Real News Network - Israel's loyalty oath

OH my........... practically the whole election in israel was based on the frame................. ..no oath no citizenship

hit the link and listen to what the news is talking about

seems without prime time putting the truth on TV, many are just not aware....

Again, I think some people are envious of Jews and not Judaism. They see that someone has what is percieved to be an advantage.

there is no advantage even as you feel it is perceived, the idea is wrong beyond belief!

The only advantage i could see being a jewish person over another is that within the jewish societies, they will choose to hire, employ, teach and accept a jewish person over an equally qualified 'anyone else'.

which as being american........'we the people' are all equal!

so it is not that i am jealous of another but that certain folks will be biased over others based on a belief, and that is WRONG!

that is the most rude and corrupt set of ideals that should ever be allowed to exist in a modern society.

nothing to be jealous of, but that mankind (the majority) need to be aware of the truth of the matters; no one is better than another!

Now I am no historian but I think the main reason the holocaust is called what it is and is so frightening is the methodology they did not die in war...

and i would agree, as in israel they are pursuing the exact style of condemnation....... either join them or be isolated and removed. How to you think Gaza was born?

buildings were built to kill them,

them building were not build to kill, as they used the people, for work.

that idea to waste money to simply house people they intented to kill is and always has been an incorrect analogy.

really think about what you are saying......... if murder was the purpose, then why waste the money? That makes no sense in any frame possible except to fib and try and teach people that germany was collectively of hate for their very brethren.

That is wrong!

they were herded into camps and to their deaths systematically. Are you kidding me, so you are siding with Hitler, europe and the world should have rolled over to facism?

hell no!

and to allow Israel to be facist, is just as bad.

Meaning: we all, can't change yesterday but that does not mean today any of the same oppression, atrocities, concentration camps and cruely to human beings should be allowed to continue.

Your twisting of history and my words is quite interesting and begs the question...

What is your agenda?

i twist nothing

i see, read, hear and write what i observe as my opinion

if error is within, then i am bound to learn and will

but for someone to tell me envy, facism and all the bad that happens to israel and judaism is based on not liking or envious of judaism, is just foolish.

my agenda is truth!

all cases!

whether i am learning or am reflecting reality.... i seek truth over a bias any and everyday of the week.

eg.... if what i write was not true, i would not be writing it!

my whole argument of this thread is "The people of judaism were isolated by the nazis regime because they would not join the german intent to rearm itself"


that is what i see and i am not concerned with being politically correct

i share what has been learned

 

[nativeastral]

The problem also was that Hitler was into the propagation of a 'purity' of aryan race and as the jews were of a different ethncity [rather than religion per se], set apart [in part] by their own kashrut system, then that was bound to rub up/run against the nationalistic/fascist ideal/agenda going on at the time, starting with WW1 no doubt, when all hands were needed on deck, so these 'chosen people' [from a puritanical german christian background], the ones who wouldn't mix due to above [mitzvot?] needed a kick up the...but wait lets 'use' them..then eliminate along with all the 'others' who have infiltrated into the 'motherland'.

What can those who created the Israeli state ie the western powers do now? we [still] watch helplessly ....theres a lot of pro-palestinians where l stay due to zionism, which a lot of the christians there [and elsewhere] supported. What about all of the jewish folk from around the globe [returning] settling in Israel, the young sussed and hopefully more liberal/tolerant minded..they too young to have a voice there?

 

[Francis king]

yes, I know that germany was trying to "rid itself" of jews, and did try to ship them off to other countries, and yes, I know other countries wouldn't accept them... yes, I also heard it was due to unstable markets etc, after the big depression, but in truth, I am aware that in europe at that time, and america, and russia, jews were maligned, disliked, not trusted; an easy group to blame when things went wrong- after all, we all know Jews are greedy misers, right..? they were responsible for the death of Christ...the plague, the death of alexander II, the occupation of Rome, and so must have collectively been partly responsible for the great depression as well...

"Had those nations at the Evian conference foreseen the coming holocaust, would they have changed their minds?"

- I suspect not

"did they even know what was going on with the persecution of Jews in Germany, Austria, Czechoslavokia, and every other country the Nazi's occupied?"

-yes, they did... but they didn't know everything all at once as it didn't happen all at once... people weren't suddenly "just gone"- slowly the Nazi's went, at first- using segregation, forcing ppl to wear stars to denote their jewishness, low level tensions, then it began to escalate; using curfews, creation of ghettos, etc, then later, shipped off to camps to work, and then... well, we know what happened after that...

people were shipping off their children to aunts in other countries long before the ghettos were created- some people were aware things were going to turn out bad and tried to do what they could to get out... by the time lots of people wanted to get out things had got to the ghetto stage and there were rumours of death camps, but by that time nobody wanted to accept Jews... we didn't have asylum seekers type terminology back then...

but of course, at that time in history segregation of jews was not anathema... The USA was doing the same thing to black ppl, and nobody minded much at the time... ghetto schools, ghetto housing, etc... race mixing was considered a sin- polluting your white stock with slave blood was not the done thing- and still isn't, in some places... if it's easy to view half your own population as lesser beings by virtue of race, then its easy to extend that apathy to Jews in another country and give them little in the way of consideration...

I think personally that it's easy to blame the Nazi's soley for the Holocaust, but really anti-semitism had been endemic within the world since records began. Greeks slaughtered Jews at Alexandria in 38AD, because they were Jews, there were massacres of jews in york and London in the 10th century, in the 11th century more of the same in Spain, then around 1348 Jews were blamed for the black death and massacred again, throughout Europe- austria, germany, etc... In 1543 Martin Luther, the father of the protestant reformation, called for all jews to be attacked, their schools destroyed, their synagogues burnt and their money confiscated... In the 19th century Jews were blamed collectively for the death of the Tsar Alexander II, which resulted in the 19th century Russian pogroms...

still today... the recent trouble in the middle east tells me we collectively still mistrust and malign Jews- after the Jews were lauded on TV, attacks on jews and synagogues went up, desecration of jewish monuments and places of worship went up...

when things go wrong, the person who survives blames others-yes, it keeps us alive, but it also allows racism to breed... way back in the day we didn't have groups of Paki's to bash, or Muslims to slap, and Jews were a nice coherent, distinct, recognisable group, with their own traditions and culture; a nice easy target...

so, did apathy contribute to the Holocaust? Not perhaps as much as racism did...

 

[Dondi]

Great post, Francis. Thank you for your reply.

Does any of our Jewish members wish to chime in?

 

[bananabrain]

The people of judaism were isolated by the nazis regime because they would not join the german intent to rearm itself

not my opinion, it is what is written as well makes the most sense rather than believing that the reason was just hate.

you don't listen, do you? and you clearly know feck-all about the holocaust. the jews were EXTERMINATED by the nazis because the nazis considered them RACIALLY INFERIOR. they were not "isolated". they were rounded up, shipped off in cattle trucks, worked and starved to death, gassed and used in medical experiments, including people that couldn't possibly have joined the german rearmament effort, like my wife's father who was 14, and his siblings, 8 & 11. the little girl and her parents, grandparents, uncles and aunts were all murdered. i wonder how that fits into your wacky little theory?

and since most of the religious folk of judaism were the weathiest population of germany, the regime took all assets and freedoms and isolated them from the population.

and the jews of poland, the USSR, czechoslovakia, france, hungary, romania, greece, bulgaria, denmark, norway, sweden, belgium, holland, serbia, bosnia and croatia - i suppose all of them were murdered, sorry "isolated", because they didn't want to help germany rearm. honestly, this is the stupidest theory i've ever heard.

i will never believe that the cause was simply hate.

why, perhaps you believe my wife's 8-year old aunt had done something to deserve it?

Hitler is said to be of jewish lineage, does that mean the mongrelise extent truly existed?

that is only said by people who haven't actually investigated the facts. i thought you were interested in "truth"?

When i talk to you, i will let you know! Otherwise, you and i are not compatible as human beings, so please leave well enough alone.

if you talk nonsense on the judaism board, expect to be picked up on it.

you post items i do not approve of and i know i will post items you do not approve of but that does no mean you have a right to be abusive nor pull posts, nor even try to square up with me

i've not been "abusive" to you. you are the one who has made a death threat to me. you were lucky not to be banned for that. as for "don't dare square up with me", only a complete imbecile says that to a moderator when he is clearly in breach of the CoC. mend your ways, or you're gone.

even to ban me and my little posts, be certain, the days of corruption are soon to be over.

well, i look forward to that. what is it exactly that you expect to happen? you've alluded to it plenty of times, we always just thought you were about to declare your prophethood.

ie..... you on a thread about the holocaust of wwII, when right now there is a holocaust of 2009; it has been going on for almost 70 years.

firstly, we should be able to discuss the holocaust without you bringing up israel, that is known as "whataboutery". secondly, if there was a policy of genocide, gas chambers, selections, medical experiments, mass executions and so on being carried by the israeli government, a ludicrous suggestion, as a believer in peace and interfaith dialogue i would be the first to protest and take action; this is, however much bigots like you like to insinuate it, not the case.

Last line...who the heck believes that WW2 was about judaism?? It was about world domination, about a little man with a power complex.

wil, you're wasting your time if you're still expecting our friend here to do anything other than write tendentious gibberish.

i disagree, as without the society known as america, which is predominately christian, the fermenting dispencers of hate would never have created israel if envy or the crucifixion was even considered.

are you accusing the jews of the crucifixion of jesus now?

Them people chose the fate by siding with the religion over their country.

so when your country passes laws that say you are RACIALLY subhuman, you're bound to go along with that, are you? incidentally, you are still failing to distinguish between nazi so-called "scientific" anti-semitism, which condemned people of what it considered to be a race, whether they were *believing* jews or not. under the nuremberg laws (look them up) anyone with one jewish grandparent, even if s/he was, say, a practicing, even ordained christian, was scheduled for extermination. thus it was that even totally assimilated jews and people who had never considered themselves jewish, were marked for death. this cloth-headed comment shows a basic ignorance of the facts.

The only advantage i could see being a jewish person over another is that within the jewish societies, they will choose to hire, employ, teach and accept a jewish person over an equally qualified 'anyone else'.

racist. either provide evidence for this, or accept the consequences.

them building were not build to kill, as they used the people, for work.

so you're a holocaust denier now? ok, so if that's true, why was my wife's 8-year old aunt selected from a line and sent to a gas chamber?

if error is within, then i am bound to learn and will

you haven't learned diddly since you've been posting here.

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[Bishadi]

you don't listen, do you? and you clearly know feck-all about the holocaust.

i only know what i read and willing to observe both sides

i would think anyone who doesn't and only sides to half of history, is the bigot.

I believe you called me a racists for simply sharing 2 sides to the argument. Now any can see why you and i don't get along. You are the racist. Me debating history does not make me against any religions or person, it means i will observe both sides and share what is written rather than what ONE side wants to maintain focus on.

All you can talk about is the pain from one side.

the jews were EXTERMINATED by the nazis because the nazis considered them RACIALLY INFERIOR.

so if 'racially inferior' was the rule, then what about hindu, asian, blacks, and anything not considered pure under them guidelines............. are they all Jewish too? Were all them killed too? i mean wwII (europe) was not just hitler against jewish people.

sorry "isolated", because they didn't want to help germany rearm. honestly, this is the stupidest theory i've ever heard.

and to suggest all of germany and all of europian folks who joined hitler hated jewish folk and that they were the prize of the war is stupid beyond belief.

But in knowing so much property and possessions (art, gold, jewlry, etc) were owned by the wealthy folks of judaism, now the prize can be seen tangible.

that is only said by people who haven't actually investigated the facts. i thought you were interested in "truth"?

I shared a maybe.... i did not stand up and say 'fact'... like you enjoy doing with your 'beliefs'

only a complete imbecile says that to a moderator when he is clearly in breach of the CoC. mend your ways, or you're gone.

you personally attacking me with 'imbecile' as well as the utter dozen or so titles is all you do as nothing in this post even reflects anything but your opinion of my opinion............ nothing tangible!

as for me hating liars.......... if i could i would stop the hearts of all of them! Don't feel special as you are nothing but another biased opinion!

well, i look forward to that. what is it exactly that you expect to happen? you've alluded to it plenty of times, we always just thought you were about to declare your prophethood.

if the truth offers life for each person equally of mankind, then the last 'word' will show what 'life' is.

prophets are for people who like magic. Honest people just want the truth.

firstly, we should be able to discuss the holocaust without you bringing up israel, that is known as "whataboutery".

you stop talking about

genocide, gas chambers, selections, medical experiments, mass executions and so on

and i will stop talking about what Gaza is (the current atrocity of war)

to me, the old is already past; deserving the truth and addressing today exceeds me believing a biased story

as a believer in peace and interfaith dialogue i would be the first to protest and take action; this is, however much bigots like you like to insinuate it, not the case.

calling me a bigot is not peacful or of any compassion for interfaith.

for example a bishop telling the whole world he don't believe in all the stories of wwII has nothing to do with interfaith nor equality of opinion but even now a religious entity believes they have the right to ask the pope to remove his cross to visit the wall.

the point is, responsibility to being peaceful does not give another religious entity the power to overrun others based on their beliefs.

so when your country passes laws that say you are RACIALLY subhuman, you're bound to go along with that, are you?

Nope. i break laws all the time.... i care about truth over beliefs, and will never overlook what is occuring across the globe based on the fibs and corruption of religious entities (don't care what name they have on them)

but if you asking me about Israel and if they continue with isolating of palestinians from the land of their birth, then i am against

racist. either provide evidence for this, or accept the consequences.

you write up your comment, expect me to answer your context, call me a racist, then threaten me with 'the consequences'...........

my turn: go lay by your dish

you haven't learned diddly since you've been posting here.

b'shalom

bananabrain

i learned that 'religious translations' vary (best lesson from this site)

but your integrity is still the same!

 

[Dondi]

you stop talking about

genocide, gas chambers, selections, medical experiments, mass executions and so on

and i will stop talking about what Gaza is (the current atrocity of war)

to me, the old is already past; deserving the truth and addressing today exceeds me believing a biased story

Bishadi,

"genocide, gas chambers, selections, medical experiments, mass executions and so on" is related to the OP concerning the Holocaust, while the current state of Israel plays no part in our current discussion. Please stick with the OP, and let's not let this be the place to springboard your anti-semitic views.

Come to think of it, I'd like to request to the moderators to close this thread. I meant this to be a civil conversation, but unfortunately it's been all but contorted and ruined. This really saddens me.