What principle of science doew Islam permit?

[Amergin]

I admit my ignorance about Islam and am sceptical about its critics. I would like Muslims to inform me of some questions.

1. Geology: Does Islam permit belief in the scientific evidence that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old?

2. Geotectonics: Since it is not in the Qur'an, is it permissible to accept plate tectonics and continental drift which is supported by strong evidence?

3. Biological Evolution of all animals including humanity?

4. Neuroscience: Conscious and cognition are functions of complex brain circuits of neurons, axons, terminals, synapses, receptors on dendrites, and neurochemical conductors across the synapses. Is this knowledge allowed in Islam?

5. Soul: Does Islam accept the concept of a soul?

6. Soul: Do muslims believe the soul is immortal or dies at the body's death?

7. Soul: Do muslims believe that only humans have souls or do all animals including humans have souls either mortal or immortal?

8. Women: Most of us believe that women are oppressed by Islamic Sharia laws. They have seemingly oppressive total body covering that men are not forced to wear. Is this something that happened after Muhammad's time or did the Prophet (praise him) make those laws?

9. Core beliefs: Islam seems to be similar to Judaism in that they are monotheistic and worship the God of Abraham. Is Islam and Judaism different mainly in Islam's final prophet, Muhammad? Or is the only difference between Judaism and Islam the fact that Judaism is ethnocentric?

10. Does Islam accept Adam and Eve as real people created 6000 years ago, or are they metaphors for the earliest humans?

I am not debating anything here. I am just trying to learn the truth amid all of the media propaganda.

Amergin

 

[Amergin]

Does conversion of a westerner to Islam require fluency in the Arabic language in order to read and recite the Qur'an?

Amergin

 

[wil]

what do 5-10 have to do with science? And what media propaganda is leading you astray?

Seems if you spent a similar time researching Islamic websites as you do the ones where you acquire disinformation you would have differing questions.

 

[iBrian]

Point 8 was common in the wider Mediterranean area. Strangely enough, Christians suddenly dropped the habit of forcing women to wear veils around the 12th century.

Also, the Qur'an is explicit that the pursuit of learning worldly knowledge is Godly, hence why Arabic culture developing the foundations of modern science, not least through the study of astronomy, mathematics, and the technologies required to study them (ie, development of optics and advances in glass polishing).

 

[c0de]

What principle of science doew Islam permit?

The modern "scientific method" was first formalized by Muslims (Ibn Haytam, Book of Optics).

1. Geology: Does Islam permit belief in the scientific evidence that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old?

Yes, there's nothing in the Quran to contradict this. Actually, I think the original Aramaic of the OT is even compatible with geological evidence, as the word used is something like "periods" not "days" of creation.

2. Geotectonics: Since it is not in the Qur'an, is it permissible to accept plate tectonics and continental drift which is supported by strong evidence?

Of course.

3. Biological Evolution of all animals including humanity?

Sure.

The Muslims who don't think so are not paying attention to what the Quran actually says. There's this fraud pop-theologen from Turkey that's influenced a lot of the debate recently, in the wrong direction.

4. Neuroscience: Conscious and cognition are functions of complex brain circuits of neurons, axons, terminals, synapses, receptors on dendrites, and neurochemical conductors across the synapses. Is this knowledge allowed in Islam?

Totally compatible. Man is not Angel. He was "molded" (metaphor for evolved, imo) from the earth's clay (i.e. is a carbon based lifeform) and therefore, his cognitive process will also be based in the material.

However, the exact nature of the "material" dimension itself is another (philosophical) discussion... e.g. I hold a non-dualistic view, while many others hold dualistic views.

5. Soul: Does Islam accept the concept of a soul?

Yes, but God in the Quran says no human actually knows what the "soul" is. So speculating on it as being some ethereal "thing" (leading to dualism) is the wrong approach, imo.

6. Soul: Do muslims believe the soul is immortal or dies at the body's death?

It's a complex question and so requires a complex answer:

1. Matter doesn't actually have any inherent properties of existence or causation, this is a philosophical principle that is rooted in inductive empiricism.
2. As for the soul's mortal/immortality, the interesting thing is that in the Quran, there are two instances when God says that he "takes" the soul away. One is (obviously) at death. But the other is when we sleep. So what happens when we sleep? We are -not- conscious. That's a pretty big hint, I think, on how to treat this "soul" concept.

Taking this together, it seems to support the position that the soul doesn't actually exist in a way that most people think it does. The soul is a sort of "state"

7. Soul: Do muslims believe that only humans have souls or do all animals including humans have souls either mortal or immortal?

Nothing is said regarding the animal soul. But men themselves are referred to be behaving like animals when they debase themselves. Which is another hint that soul is a level of consciousness. If a man lives on the aesthetic level, then he/she is basically functioning at the "soul" level of an animal.

In this way, the soul might said to be a state of one's ethical consciousness. Animals also might have some lower level awareness of it. Who knows?

8. Women: Most of us believe that women are oppressed by Islamic Sharia laws. They have seemingly oppressive total body covering that men are not forced to wear. Is this something that happened after Muhammad's time or did the Prophet (praise him) make those laws?

After the Prophet, definitely. There is nothing in the Quran to support such strict covering restrictions for women. Of course, many Muslims will disagree, but the fact is that the words for specific articles of clothing for women (in the Quran itself) do not correspond to the total blackout attire that is enforced on women in some Muslim countries.

9. Core beliefs: Islam seems to be similar to Judaism in that they are monotheistic and worship the God of Abraham. Is Islam and Judaism different mainly in Islam's final prophet, Muhammad? Or is the only difference between Judaism and Islam the fact that Judaism is ethnocentric?

Both.

10. Does Islam accept Adam and Eve as real people created 6000 years ago, or are they metaphors for the earliest humans?

Aspects of that story are a metaphor, imo. But there might actually have been two individuals too.

I am not debating anything here. I am just trying to learn the truth amid all of the media propaganda.

If you have any other questions, feel free to post them.

No worries.

 

[c0de]

.

p.s.

In case I didn't make it clear enough above: the "6000 years" time-line has nothing to do with the Quran.

 

[wil]

Point 8 was common in the wider Mediterranean area. Strangely enough, Christians suddenly dropped the habit of forcing women to wear veils around the 12th century.

Quite interesting....

What with religions really being about ways to control and govern people (always great to have retribution for breaking laws from beyond and for eternity, saves a lot on courts and policing).

Various civil welfare items are included in every religion, the avoidance of eating scavengers like pork and shellfish like Muslims and Jews, Hindi laws made the cow sacred to keep the large population from eating their plow oxen, and elimated crossing water to stop the spread of epidemics. It goes on and on with the various 'golden rules'....

So what I was wondering is if those folks in the Med cared enough for their women, to viel them to avoid skin cancer and wrinkles??

 

[Amergin]

The modern "scientific method" was first formalized by Muslims (Ibn Haytam, Book of Optics).


Yes, there's nothing in the Quran to contradict this. Actually, I think the original Aramaic of the OT is even compatible with geological evidence, as the word used is something like "periods" not "days" of creation.

Of course.

Sure.

The Muslims who don't think so are not paying attention to what the Quran actually says. There's this fraud pop-theologen from Turkey that's influenced a lot of the debate recently, in the wrong direction.

Totally compatible. Man is not Angel. He was "molded" (metaphor for evolved, imo) from the earth's clay (i.e. is a carbon based lifeform) and therefore, his cognitive process will also be based in the material.

However, the exact nature of the "material" dimension itself is another (philosophical) discussion... e.g. I hold a non-dualistic view, while many others hold dualistic views.

Yes, but God in the Quran says no human actually knows what the "soul" is. So speculating on it as being some ethereal "thing" (leading to dualism) is the wrong approach, imo.

It's a complex question and so requires a complex answer:

1. Matter doesn't actually have any inherent properties of existence or causation, this is a philosophical principle that is rooted in inductive empiricism.
2. As for the soul's mortal/immortality, the interesting thing is that in the Quran, there are two instances when God says that he "takes" the soul away. One is (obviously) at death. But the other is when we sleep. So what happens when we sleep? We are -not- conscious. That's a pretty big hint, I think, on how to treat this "soul" concept.

Taking this together, it seems to support the position that the soul doesn't actually exist in a way that most people think it does. The soul is a sort of "state"

Nothing is said regarding the animal soul. But men themselves are referred to be behaving like animals when they debase themselves. Which is another hint that soul is a level of consciousness. If a man lives on the aesthetic level, then he/she is basically functioning at the "soul" level of an animal.

In this way, the soul might said to be a state of one's ethical consciousness. Animals also might have some lower level awareness of it. Who knows?

After the Prophet, definitely. There is nothing in the Quran to support such strict covering restrictions for women. Of course, many Muslims will disagree, but the fact is that the words for specific articles of clothing for women (in the Quran itself) do not correspond to the total blackout attire that is enforced on women in some Muslim countries.

Both.

Aspects of that story are a metaphor, imo. But there might actually have been two individuals too.

If you have any other questions, feel free to post them.

No worries.

Thank you for the excellent information about Islam. I appreciate your tolerance of my asking questions that may seem stupid to learned Muslims. This kind of information and information exchange is the way to defuse the dangerous misinformation producing the mutual suspicion of Muslims and Westerners/Christians. This has dispelled many of my false ideas about Islam.

Amergin

 

[c0de]

... that may seem stupid to learned Muslims.

The official cliques of "learned Muslims" are mostly idiots, by the way, imo.

 

[iBrian]

Quite interesting....

What with religions really being about ways to control and govern people (always great to have retribution for breaking laws from beyond and for eternity, saves a lot on courts and policing).

Various civil welfare items are included in every religion, the avoidance of eating scavengers like pork and shellfish like Muslims and Jews, Hindi laws made the cow sacred to keep the large population from eating their plow oxen, and elimated crossing water to stop the spread of epidemics. It goes on and on with the various 'golden rules'....

So what I was wondering is if those folks in the Med cared enough for their women, to viel them to avoid skin cancer and wrinkles??

I think it was around the 12th century anyway - certainly it was based on Paul's proscriptions of women in the Church.

The date could be the clue, though - that as this is around the period of the first set of crusades, as well as the break between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, I wonder if veils in Europe were dropped because they seemed too "Eastern". Just a thought.

 

[wil]

This is an interesting talk from TED...

Lesley Hazleton: On reading the Koran | Video on TED.com

 

[Amica]

Peace/salaam Amergin--

I appreciate your asking rather than believing blindly what others who have no knowledge about Islam say.

To answer your questions:

Please read book called "Qur'an, Bible and Science" by Maurice Becaille. It will tell you about certain verses in the Qur'an that talk science.

Online for free:
The Bible, The Qur'an and Science

Regarding Women: Question "Most of us believe that women are oppressed by Islamic Sharia laws. They have seemingly oppressive total body covering that men are not forced to wear. Is this something that happened after Muhammad's time or did the Prophet (praise him) make those laws?"
--One of the main signs of believing women is that they do not cause others to sin because of them, meaning that in their modesty they will not seek or cause others to seek unlawful behaviors such as adultery, promiscuity, rape, etc.
--By dressing modestly, Muslim women are not viewed as sexual objects.
--Majority of Muslim women view their dress code as their piety not opression. It is not the men who have asked them to wear it but God SWT:
Qur'an 24.31. "And tell the believing women that they (also) should restrain their gaze (from looking at the men whom it is lawful for them to marry, and from others' private parts), and guard their private parts, and that they should not display their charms except that which is revealed of itself; and let them draw their veils over their bosoms, and (tell them) not to display their charms to any save their husbands, or their fathers (and grandfathers, and both paternal and maternal uncles), or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands (both their own and step-sons and grandsons), or their brothers (and foster- and step-brothers), or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or the Muslim women and the women of good conduct with whom they associate, or those (slave-girls) their right hands possess, or the male attendants in their service free of sexual desire, or children that are as yet unaware of femininity. Nor should they stamp their feet (i. e. act in such a manner as to) draw attention to their charms (and arouse the passion of men). And, O believers, turn to God all together in repentance that you may attain true prosperity. "

Core beliefs: Islam is similar to Judaism in that both religions share various same laws. Islam recognizes the Message of Israel's Prophet's pbuh, and in fact teaches that the Message has been the same for millenia. I am not sure about Judaism and how ethnocentric it is, but Islam teaches universaility of its message. In many verses God SWT is speaking to mankind ("Oh, mankind,..") and tells that Qur'an is for all, regardless of what community, that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh is for all not just Arabs.

Adam and Eve: yes, they are taught in Islam to be first two human beings ever created. Adam pbuh is taught to be the first Prophet pbuh. According to the Qur'an, Adam was created and lived in Heaven. Later, God SWT created Eve too. The two sinned (the blame is not just on one of them, but both) by listening to satan. However, Adam and Eve pbut prayed for forgivness. Although expelled from Heaven, they were shown Mercy because God SWT sent them Guidance and told them that who ever follows the Guidance from their children and generations to come will end up back in Heaven.

Regarding the soul,

"And they ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning the Ruh (the Spirit); Say: The Ruh (the Spirit): is the AMAR of your Creator. And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little." (Noble Quran, Surat Al 'Isra', Verse 85)

"And the AMAR of your Creator is such that when Allah Want something to happen, he says 'Let it be' then it is done".

Ruh (soul, spirit) is that creation of Allah, Which represent the will of Allah in the human beings.

After death, a person’s spirit is extracted from the body and enters an intermediate state known as Barzakh, a parallel universe which humans in the mortal world cannot visualize. This stage results in a cold sleep state where the soul will rest until the Judgment Day. The person is either rewarded in the next realm of existence by going to heaven if they have followed Allah's commands or punished if they have disobeyed Him (Qur'an 66:8, 39:20,

[For such is the state of the disbelievers], when death comes to one of them he says: "My Lord, send me back. That I may do righteousness in the things I neglected." Never, it is but a word he says. And beyond them is a Barzakh until the day when they (all) are raised up." Qur'an 23: 99-100.


http://www.interfaith.org/forum/#cite_note-67​

 

[Muslimwoman]

So what I was wondering is if those folks in the Med cared enough for their women, to viel them to avoid skin cancer and wrinkles??

Shouldn't think so lol .. much more to do with status I believe. A woman who veiled and stayed indoors would have paler skin, an attractive feature in many hot countries, and she was showing she didn't need to work, both by staying at home and by having pale skin .. therefore from a wealthy family.

I believe a woman's dress (regarding whether to wear hijab or niqab) was her choice in the early days of Islam (except for the Prophets wives (pbut)).

When the niece of Aishah Bint Abu Bakr (the Prophet’s wife), Aisha bint Talha was asked by her husband Musab to veil her face, she answered, "Since the Almighty hath put on me the stamp of beauty, it is my wish that the public should view the beauty and thereby recognized His grace unto them. On no account, therefore, will I veil myself.