Vatican praises EU decision on crucifixes in class

[Nick the Pilot]

Vatican praises EU decision on crucifixes in class - Yahoo! News

Crucifixes in public school classrooms do not violate a student's freedom of conscience, a European high court ruled Friday in a verdict welcomed by the Vatican in its campaign to remind the continent of its Christian roots.

The case was brought by a Finnish-born woman living in Italy who objected to the crucifixes in her children's classrooms, arguing they violated the secular principles public schools are supposed to uphold. The debate divided Europe's traditional Catholic and Orthodox countries and their more secular neighbors that observe a strict separation between church and state.

...Friday's reversal has implications in 47 countries, opening the way for Europeans who want religious symbols in classrooms to petition their governments to allow them.

(cont.)

 

[wil]

Yeah, lets start decorating!!

 

[Nick the Pilot]

I remember an American family, Christians, who were living in Japan. They became outraged when they learned their children were 'forced' into attending a Buddhist event at the local Japanese public school the American children were attending.

I wonder how the Italian judge would feel if his elementary-age children went to a school in Japan and were forced to attend Buddhist events?

 

[seattlegal]

I think there is a big difference between having cultural symbols (even if religious in nature) in the classroom and making students participate in religious ceremonies.

This example is clearly political in nature, rather than religious in nature, although many will prolly try to label it as religious.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

I definitely see it as religious.

 

[wil]

I think there is a big difference between having cultural symbols (even if religious in nature) in the classroom and making students participate in religious ceremonies.

This example is clearly political in nature, rather than religious in nature, although many will prolly try to label it as religious.

How can a crucifix be political in nature?

A cross maybe....

But isn't a crucifix a cross that Jesus is hanging on?

 

[seattlegal]

How can a crucifix be political in nature?

A cross maybe....

But isn't a crucifix a cross that Jesus is hanging on?

The argument that a cultural/religious symbol can't be displayed in a public place is definitely a political argument, in my opinion.

 

[wil]

The argument that a cultural/religious symbol can't be displayed in a public place is definitely a political argument, in my opinion.

Is there not a differentiation between something outside, on a building, and in a classroom where kids would see it everyday at the front of a classroom?

I think it is the subliminal aspect of state approval of whatever is shown if there is only one...is it not?

 

[seattlegal]

Is there not a differentiation between something outside, on a building, and in a classroom where kids would see it everyday at the front of a classroom?

I think it is the subliminal aspect of state approval of whatever is shown if there is only one...is it not?

Would it be any different from classrooms displaying a Native American crafted Raven, or an Egyptian Ra statue?

 

[Sam Albion]

I agree with Will and Seattlegal: the crucifix in the classroom is subliminally "an approved object", approved of by the "powerful"; the teachers, the headmaster, the State itself, and this "approval" must meld itself to a persons consciousness simply by virtue of its existence.

If a state school has one symbol on display then they should have all of them. Unless they are specifically a "religious school".

And.. it's definately political. How can it not be? Especially within Europe, with it's current anti-Muslim sentiments.

 

[wil]

Would it be any different from classrooms displaying a Native American crafted Raven, or an Egyptian Ra statue?

Yes and no. If it is some rare or esoteric thing, it won't have as dramatic an effect as a standard emblem like a crucifix, a star of david, or a moon and star...but it will have an effect.

You gotta figure kids spend what 6 hours a day in school? 4 hours a day in front of a television, gameboy or computer, few hours with their friends, 8-10 hours a day in bed or getting up from or ready to bed. Really very few hours per day interacting with their parents....

Now I'm not talking all kids....but many kids, especially those that say on the news "I don't know what happenned we didn't raise him like that"

We gotta face facts, what a kid gets in school does get ingrained and does shape his/her life, possibly much more than many parents do....good or bad...I don't know.

 

[seattlegal]

Yes and no. If it is some rare or esoteric thing, it won't have as dramatic an effect as a standard emblem like a crucifix, a star of david, or a moon and star...but it will have an effect.

Ok, I can see how someone suffering up on a cross could upset a child. Indeed, this image invokes man's inhumanity to man quite succinctly.

You gotta figure kids spend what 6 hours a day in school? 4 hours a day in front of a television, gameboy or computer, few hours with their friends, 8-10 hours a day in bed or getting up from or ready to bed. Really very few hours per day interacting with their parents....

Now I'm not talking all kids....but many kids, especially those that say on the news "I don't know what happenned we didn't raise him like that"

We gotta face facts, what a kid gets in school does get ingrained and does shape his/her life, possibly much more than many parents do....good or bad...I don't know.

And who is complaining? Is it the students? The article said it was a parent that complained. Have there been any complaints from students being scared or otherwise distracted from learning by it? Have there been any comments from the students saying, "that's cool!" or anything of the sort?

 

[wil]

nah, the kids won't complain. They won't complain if you play video games or movies all day. It has to be the parents that complain. About the quality of lunch, about the class schedules, about reducing recess or physical ed.

 

[Quahom1]

Yeah, lets start decorating!!

Like it, except the bottom ones...too suggestive. Don't want our female children to be considered as fertility symbols, now do we...Oh, upper left one too...

 

[Quahom1]

How can a crucifix be political in nature?

A cross maybe....

But isn't a crucifix a cross that Jesus is hanging on?

Indeed Wil. In fact it has no meaning to anyone but those that follow it's God...