Jesus is the Messiah. Yes! But for what purpose?

Kenneth

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Jesus is Christ, the anointed one, the messiah, there are many verses in the bible that he said this.​

He did tell that he is the messiah. But for what purpose and what intentions? Here we need to think further than the ordinary.
His real teachings are side-lined and we are and more bothered about expanding the group of Christianity and even sub-dividing it as far as possible so that each institution / division grows in numbers and popularity / revenue and doing better and gives more so-called salvation than the other.​

Most of the Preachings have been reduced to just show business, hypnotic speeches, dramatic healing shows and mass cheating all in the name of Jesus for ulterior motives of a few. Yes! in the short term it helps some as an instant relief and a “wow” experience to hear such speeches.​

But what about the truth – the real purpose and intention of Jesus calling himself the messiah. Is war, regional attacks, hatred and even vengeance and killings in the name of religion is what Jesus wanted.​

Is possessing people through fear of hell, “thou shall not have any other God’s”, etc. in the name of religion and with the aim of creating a business in the name of religion is what Jesus wanted.​

Because of all the religious conditioning aren’t each one of us really divided when we see a person of another religion? Then where can there be genuine love with others as Jesus had preached.​

Did he ever say that I’m the only messiah and there shall be no other messiah now and in the future. Wasn’t he the messiah to tell the world about love and forgiveness and righteous living and not about forming Christianity and its sub-divisions.​

Jesus only told to open your ears, eyes to wisdom in our day to day life. Why shouldn’t that include teachings of other religions, a wealth of wisdom given by Great People in other religions through the same ‘God the Father’ who sent Jesus?​

Jesus thought us the importance of Love and forgiveness. Islam teaches about giving alms. Hinduism teaches us about worship of GOD through Nature and its 5 elements and the power of mantras, mudras and meditation and non-attachment. Likewise religions the world over have something to contribute in the regions in which they are popular.​

I would take a step further and say that in future we don’t need religions at all. For me the word “secularism” and “religious tolerance” looks silly. In an environment of secularism only more confusion prevails and there can be only tolerance and not pure love and freedom.​

We create religion and then tolerate it through secularism. Sounds unnatural and plastic. We are all very natural beings and that is why we are all spiritual. We need to be more natural, real and full of freedom without any conditioning by any religion.​

I really don’t understand what is the problem in ordinary people to believe that the very same GOD the Father sent other messiahs and created other religions and its people as well. Are those people created by Ghosts and all what they do are ghostly or full of sin? Aren’t they equally successful or some even more successful and happier. The people forming religious organisations should be having the problem to change for fear of unemployment.​

We Christians are always living in the future and are conditioned to think about ‘Judgement Day’. In the name of Judgement and hell there is another big ‘fear conditioning’ from our childhood. If we do not go to Sunday School we go to hell. If we do not receive communion we go to hell. If we do not take confession to a priest we go to hell. I’m not saying that all these are not necessary, but it could be done with more freedom and without inculcating a fear in people.​

Somehow every religion is doing this and each community / institution has a set of rules and regulations to condition people through fear.​

Because of this fear and conditioning a sense of freedom is lost and the real essence of GOD and religious practice too is lost and what results is Egoism, insecurity, hatred and misinterpretation towards real words of wisdom, narrow-mindedness and so on.​

Every child needs to be nurtured in good aspects of all religions as far as possible, they should be made to open their eyes and ears and other senses to all the relevant wisdom that is available and not see the religious angle to the particular wisdom. They should be made to distinguish between wisdom and narrow religious thoughts. In this will develop love, joy and vast knowledge and freedom.​

For eg. The prayer ‘Our father’. How many of us really tell this prayer with full involvement understanding every word of it. ‘Your Kingdom come, your will be done’, how do we and the Church understand this phrase or make our Children understand this phrase. From a narrow religious notion we could mean that Christianity and its teachings should prevail. From a more free, real and wise notion we will mean that righteousness, love, forgiveness, should prevail through the coming of the kingdom of God.​

And when this Child goes to a Church, or goes to a temple or a mosque, he /she will do it with full freedom, personal interest and real faith in God than through conditioning and he will see the kingdom of GOD. Not otherwise.​

And many such children will form a good society with good values and this will bring more peace and harmony in the world. This world will become united with no need for any religions and nations. All these are man-made and formed with ulterior motives, not out of love and wisdom. The result will be freedom from Hunger in many parts of the world, better productivity and happiness, peace and security and savings of Billions of Dollars of money and precious resources in building unnecessary arms and ammunitions, we could avert another Sep 11 or the war in middle-east and other places, all in the name of religion and ulterior motives of some.​

What has happened has happened because of some good. But that too is GOD’s plan because nothing in this world good or bad happens without his will. So I accept, because certain false things are allowed to be free in this world and at the end they fail and start giving better clarity to truth.
This may look like too much. But I strongly I believe that the world will soon be like this. There are changes that are happening directly or in-directly towards this.​

I’m sharing these thoughts to give my contribution to make this possible.​
 
His real teachings are side-lined ...
Which teachings would those be?

But what about the truth – the real purpose and intention of Jesus calling himself the messiah. Is war, regional attacks, hatred and even vengeance and killings in the name of religion is what Jesus wanted.
Is this part of your 'real teaching'?

Is possessing people through fear of hell, “thou shall not have any other God’s”, etc. in the name of religion and with the aim of creating a business in the name of religion is what Jesus wanted.
Is it?

Because of all the religious conditioning aren’t each one of us really divided when we see a person of another religion?
No.
Then where can there be genuine love with others as Jesus had preached.
Right there.

Did he ever say that I’m the only messiah and there shall be no other messiah now and in the future.
Yes.

Wasn’t he the messiah to tell the world about love and forgiveness and righteous living and not about forming Christianity and its sub-divisions.
No.

Jesus only told to open your ears, eyes to wisdom in our day to day life. Why shouldn’t that include teachings of other religions, a wealth of wisdom given by Great People in other religions through the same ‘God the Father’ who sent Jesus?
I don't know ... why shouldn't it ... because logically Jesus Christ is the source of that wisdom as well, as Christians have claimed for centuries.

Jesus thought us the importance of Love and forgiveness. Islam teaches about giving alms. Hinduism teaches us about worship of GOD through Nature and its 5 elements and the power of mantras, mudras and meditation and non-attachment. Likewise religions the world over have something to contribute in the regions in which they are popular.
All those things are taught by all religions, so I think you've missed your own point?

I would take a step further and say that in future we don’t need religions at all.
What, we just follow our noses, 'the blind leading the blind' as the Scripture says? We just make it up as we go along?

Religion is the ways to God, as given by God, not a way dreamt up by man. At the very least, it's the accumulated wisdom of insight and experience. You suggest we dump all of that?

We create religion and then tolerate it through secularism.
That's utterly wrong. Secularism is, in fact, a relatively recent phenomena. Religion was there a long time before the idea of secularism ... as is evident from contemporary politics, secularism doesn't want to tolerate religion at all. Secularism wants to restrict it to the personal and private, which is not what religion is about. How can morality and ethics be personal, private, and have no place in one's relationships with ones neighbours?

We are all very natural beings and that is why we are all spiritual.
Depends what you mean by 'spiritual' as discussed elsewhere. In the Abrahamic traditions, as in others, the 'spiritual' is not natural at all. In fact, in Platonism, spirit is not of the natural order, either ... nor is it in the Dao, nor in the Vedas, nor even Buddhism in some schools.

We need to be more natural, real and full of freedom without any conditioning by any religion.
You mean utterly separate from God, and left to our own devices? No divine help, no assistance, no possibility of Divine Union?

I really don’t understand what is the problem in ordinary people to believe that the very same GOD the Father sent other messiahs and created other religions and its people as well.
Because others don't claim to be 'messiahs' ... so you're making a claim for religions that even religions don't make.

We Christians are always living in the future and are conditioned to think about ‘Judgement Day’.
Are you? What denomination are you? I'm Catholic, I live in the here-and-now. I have a hope of the future, but that hope is realised in the here-and-now ... where and how else can it be realised?

In the name of Judgement and hell there is another big ‘fear conditioning’ from our childhood. If we do not go to Sunday School we go to hell. If we do not receive communion we go to hell. If we do not take confession to a priest we go to hell. I’m not saying that all these are not necessary, but it could be done with more freedom and without inculcating a fear in people.
Oh Lord, d'you live in the 'Bible Belt'? I agree, Christian Fundamentalism is quite frightening, but it is also erroneous. I've been going to Catholic Mass regularly for the last 30-odd years, and have not been threatened once. And Catholic education is not on those lines either ... at least not here in Europe.

For eg. The prayer ‘Our father’. How many of us really tell this prayer with full involvement understanding every word of it. ‘Your Kingdom come, your will be done’, how do we and the Church understand this phrase or make our Children understand this phrase. From a narrow religious notion we could mean that Christianity and its teachings should prevail. From a more free, real and wise notion we will mean that righteousness, love, forgiveness, should prevail through the coming of the kingdom of God.
You really think you understand everything there is to be understood about the Lord's Prayer? friend, you heven't even scratched the surface ... you haven't even put a ripple on the pool ...

God bless,

Thomas
 
Jesus is Christ, the anointed one, the messiah, there are many verses in the bible that he said this.​

He did tell that he is the messiah.​


I can not find this in the Bible.

But for what purpose and what intentions? Here we need to think further than the ordinary.
His real teachings are side-lined and we are and more bothered about expanding the group of Christianity and even sub-dividing it as far as possible so that each institution / division grows in numbers and popularity / revenue and doing better and gives more so-called salvation than the other
I agree. The reason his teachings are generally ignored by "Christians" is the unfortunate hijacking of a great man's philosophy by Pagan converts more obsessed with deifying Jesus. Their aim was not doing what Jesus suggested. Their obsession was in expanding their Paganised Catholic Religion with Jesus as the new god . This would have offended the real the real Yeshua/Jesus. That is why sin no longer counts, only correct belief saves you..​

But what about the truth – the real purpose and intention of Jesus calling himself the messiah. Is war, regional attacks, hatred and even vengeance and killings in the name of religion is what Jesus wanted.
Constantine, Augustine, Theodosius I, and Theodosius II are the men who changed the "Prince of Peace" Jesus into Jesus the Crusader God of military expansion. Jesus turned the other cheek. Christianity blasphemed in the apotheosis of Jesus and transformation of him into a god of war, persecution, oppression, and submission.


Is possessing people through fear of hell, “thou shall not have any other God’s”, etc. in the name of religion and with the aim of creating a business in the name of religion is what Jesus wanted
Sorry. I did not realise this was a question. I thought it was a declarative sentence. Obviously Jesus did not want such an abomination created by using his name for dastardly acts or business scams.

Because of all the religious conditioning aren’t each one of us really divided when we see a person of another religion? Then where can there be genuine love with others as Jesus had preached.
I can not find verses in which Jesus advocated religious persecution, suppression of free speech, degrading of women, condemnation of homosexuals, or union of Church and State. In regards the last, Jesus render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's. That sounds like separation of Church and State.

Did he ever say that I’m the only messiah and there shall be no other messiah now and in the future. Wasn’t he the messiah to tell the world about love and forgiveness and righteous living and not about forming Christianity and its sub-divisions.
Crikey, Tom, you are stealing my thunder.:)

Jesus only told to open your ears, eyes to wisdom in our day to day life. Why shouldn’t that include teachings of other religions, a wealth of wisdom given by Great People in other religions through the same ‘God the Father’ who sent Jesus?
Bingo!

Jesus thought us the importance of Love and forgiveness. Islam teaches about giving alms. Hinduism teaches us about worship of GOD through Nature and its 5 elements and the power of mantras, mudras and meditation and non-attachment. Likewise religions the world over have something to contribute in the regions in which they are popular.
I agree but far too many mentally deranged extremists have perverted the good teachings for evil goals.

I would take a step further and say that in future we don’t need religions at all. For me the word “secularism” and “religious tolerance” looks silly. In an environment of secularism only more confusion prevails and there can be only tolerance and not pure love and freedom.
You confuse the term Secular. It does not mean pro-Atheist or anti-religion. The Catholic Church has priests in monastic orders plus others working as pastors in parish churches. Until recently these priests were called "Secular Priests." It meant not in an order. A secular state is simply one that does not prohibit any religion, regulate any religion, or impose religious based laws. Caesar and God are separate as Jesus recommended.

We create religion and then tolerate it through secularism. Sounds unnatural and plastic. We are all very natural beings and that is why we are all spiritual. We need to be more natural, real and full of freedom without any conditioning by any religion.​

I really don’t understand what is the problem in ordinary people to believe that the very same GOD the Father sent other messiahs and created other religions and its people as well. Are those people created by Ghosts and all what they do are ghostly or full of sin? Aren’t they equally successful or some even more successful and happier. The people forming religious organisations should be having the problem to change for fear of unemployment.
You lost me Mate. I am not sure what you mean.

We Christians are always living in the future and are conditioned to think about ‘Judgement Day’. In the name of Judgement and hell there is another big ‘fear conditioning’ from our childhood. If we do not go to Sunday School we go to hell. If we do not receive communion we go to hell. If we do not take confession to a priest we go to hell. I’m not saying that all these are not necessary, but it could be done with more freedom and without inculcating a fear in people.
Thomas, I believe that Gods were first created (or discovered) to explain mysteries of the real world. However, the social evolution of humans led to villages and tribes to clans and kingdoms. In that setting, aggressive leaders found that a God of Fear is a very good tool for establishing law and order, tribal loyalty, willingness to fight enemies on the orders of the Warlord. On a more basic level, fear of a punishing God, perhaps strengthened tribal laws and protecting the weak from bullies. Fear can be used as a weapon of individual security. It can also be a tool for aggressive war, exploitation of others, slavery, suppression of free speech, abuse of women and children, and criminalisation of rational dissent.

Somehow every religion is doing this and each community / institution has a set of rules and regulations to condition people through fear.
Quite true, my friend.

Because of this fear and conditioning a sense of freedom is lost and the real essence of GOD and religious practice too is lost and what results is Egoism, insecurity, hatred and misinterpretation towards real words of wisdom, narrow-mindedness and so on.
I agree with your meaning, other than my being a non-theist.

Every child needs to be nurtured in good aspects of all religions as far as possible, they should be made to open their eyes and ears and other senses to all the relevant wisdom that is available and not see the religious angle to the particular wisdom. They should be made to distinguish between wisdom and narrow religious thoughts. In this will develop love, joy and vast knowledge and freedom.
Unfortunately it rarely turns out this way. Religious meme induction more often leads to hatred not love, sadness not joy, superstition not knowledge (even anti-intellectualism), and tyranny not freedom. History shows this to be true.

For eg. The prayer ‘Our father’. How many of us really tell this prayer with full involvement understanding every word of it. ‘Your Kingdom come, your will be done’, how do we and the Church understand this phrase or make our Children understand this phrase. From a narrow religious notion we could mean that Christianity and its teachings should prevail. From a more free, real and wise notion we will mean that righteousness, love, forgiveness, should prevail through the coming of the kingdom of God.
"Your will be done" is a problem because nobody knows God's will or if there really is a God. The phrase is used by rulers (Chiefs, Warlords, Emirs, Kings, Emperors, and Sultans) who claim to be the appointed spokesmen for God. The Pope claims to speak for God. The fact that those "who speak for God" are so often wrong should make humans distrust that idea. I would hope the coming of the Kingdom of God would mean freedom, love, compassion, altruism, tolerance of opinions, and elimination of fear and submission.

And when this Child goes to a Church, or goes to a temple or a mosque, he /she will do it with full freedom, personal interest and real faith in God than through conditioning and he will see the kingdom of GOD. Not otherwise.
That is fine as long as the child has the option of not believing in any gods. The child should not face discrimination, persecution, school yard bullying, and job loss for being a member of any religion or of no religion.

And many such children will form a good society with good values and this will bring more peace and harmony in the world. This world will become united with no need for any religions and nations. All these are man-made and formed with ulterior motives, not out of love and wisdom. The result will be freedom from Hunger in many parts of the world, better productivity and happiness, peace and security and savings of Billions of Dollars of money and precious resources in building unnecessary arms and ammunitions, we could avert another Sep 11 or the war in middle-east and other places, all in the name of religion and ulterior motives of some.
Ditto!

What has happened has happened because of some good. But that too is GOD’s plan because nothing in this world good or bad happens without his will. So I accept, because certain false things are allowed to be free in this world and at the end they fail and start giving better clarity to truth.
This may look like too much. But I strongly I believe that the world will soon be like this. There are changes that are happening directly or in-directly towards this.
I’m sharing these thoughts to give my contribution to make this possible.​
I agree with 90% of your statement. I only need to speak for minority of non-Theists, 5% in US, 33% in UK, 49-50% in France, 70-80% in Sweden.

Amergin
 
Quote: Thomas

"You really think you understand everything there is to be understood about the Lord's Prayer? friend, you heven't even scratched the surface ... you haven't even put a ripple on the pool ..."

My reply:

The surface was smooth and the pool still and calm why should we scratch the surface further and put more ripples in the pool when the people have done enough damage to spoil the surface and disturb the stillness of the pool all in the name of religion.

Let us be loving, natural, pure, explorative, without conditioning, free and accept that everything happens because of GOD and that without his knowing nothing has happened, happens and will never happen in this world.

Past is past and it was the best, but Im only trying to present another view which I feel is the need of the hour for now and in the future. Religion has to expand and be more accommodative.
 
I agree with 90% of your statement. I only need to speak for minority of non-Theists, 5% in US, 33% in UK, 49-50% in France, 70-80% in Sweden.

Amergin[/QUOTE]


Thank you for agreeing with me. But spirituality is important and if I haven’t addressed the non-theists then I have not done justice to spirituality.

GOD is very much present, it is we who are absenting ourselves in the name of religion and being non-theists.

Nothing would have happened without GOD or a higher power. Think deeply and you will find that even to create an atom or a molecule you need somebody to have created the world. It is same Chicken or the egg theory.

Whether it is the Chicken or the egg or from something came the egg or the Chicken someone with much superior divine intelligence must have been there to create and sustain and modify / destroy.
 
Heaven and Earth, why?
Why did Jesus come to earth?

The answer starts in Genesis.

1. Sin: Human's by Satanic temptation, allowed sin to enter their bodies, through that sin death to the physical human world.

2. Issue: Satan now could also accuse God's fleshly son, Adam, of being physically dead, not able to maintain sinlessness, and that would extend to all his offspring.

3. Charge: Satan thus charged God with being corruptible, because his physical son, created in the image of God, had been corrupted. God's very rulership right was called into question.

God, man, called liars.

Jesus Christ therefore, had a complex mission.

1. Man is dead. The only way to save them is 3 fold in the full; Forgiveness of sin, removal of Adamic flesh, instruct man how to retain it by obedience, everlasting life, through Satan's last test of this perfect mankind.

A. Ransom: He had to release them from the penalty of sin, manifesting itself in their bodies, death.

B. Accusation: God was accused of evil by extension of having sinner sons, Adam, and Satan. Jesus prayed that God's name be sanctified, for in that name is the meaning of everything God is. That meaning had now been called into question in both realms, heaven and earth.

C. Death: The only way to get rid of the first Adam's sinful flesh, is by the Last Adam's perfect body and sacrifice of it to God.

D Kingdom: Jesus set up the way for humans, offering faith in his name as God's representative to offer such a hope to those who accepted it. He made a covenant with chosen human beings, for a Kingdom.

E. Restoration: He promised a fleshly resurrection, and a heavenly one.

F. God's Will: Jesus prayed God's will for heaven and earth, it is two fold. Let your will take place on earth, as it is in heaven.

G. Perfection of Realm (Earth): Jesus would soon answer Satan's charge of being corruptible under test. Jesus maintained a sinless person. Jesus perfect body, capable of living endlessly, could now become the Last Adam, a perfect fleshly body to become the seed which the nations would bless themselves by.

H. Perfection of Realm (Heaven): Upon adoption and acceptance at his baptism, Jehovah pronounced Jesus his son. Jesus was going to complete a mission sinless, through death, to be reborn for real, as he had from water and holy spirit, when John the Baptist baptized him. Upon death and resurrection, he was now an immortal incorruptible spirit and opened the way to heaven, and a perfect heavenly body.

***Missing the importance of God's will having to do with earth AND heaven, is why many cannot put the theme together.

There is no hell-fire, so we have only two destinations for those desiring and obeying: Heaven, or earth.

Hades and Death will be emptied, and in the 1000 year reign, Jesus and his Kingdom will begin a great work to replace the body of Adam's sinful nature, with the body of Jesus perfect fleshly pattern which God has, ON EARTH. To do this that body has to be literally applied ON EARTH (it is not required to live in heaven, that is a spirit body; it will though, be applied from heaven, hence the bread).

The resurrection, and the perfecting of mankind by perfect fleshly body, and instruction and guidance to perfect moral works, how to withstand Satan's final test, and how to maintain everlasting life on earth.

The blood sacrifice allows time to do this, covering us in this mission to perfection in both realms, heaven then earth. Heaven is not subject to death, so earth will continue to need a blood sacrifice to remove death here for the 1000 years (1Cor15:26)

Jesus earthly mission for answering the charge of flesh being breakable in perfect form was answered, through it came the solution for meeting the further reaching objective; the perfection of earth, from a perfect heaven.

The new heaven and the new earth, are now possible, and about to be completed in heaven and begin in earnest on earth, after Armageddon.
 
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