Babylonian Talmud

Amica

Amica

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Hello,

I have a couple of questions:

1) Is it true that Talmud is more revered than Torah?
2) I read some verses from the Talmud (English translation, online) and found some rather scary statements, such as it is ok to violate a heathen girl, and it's ok to have sex with a 3-year old girl, that all the lands belong to the Jews, that God created non-Jews to look human for the sake of Jews, etc. Do most Jews really believe this?

Thanks for you replies.
 
amica,

1) absolutely not. it's just more *practical* and more detailed. the one doesn't really make sense without the other.
2) you need to be very, very careful where this stuff is from. there are a lot of outright lies online about the talmud, because it is written in aramaic and most people aren't in a position to argue. this site:

The Real Truth About The Talmud

was set up specifically to combat these kinds of lies. please, please, go read the pages on the following:

Is it true that Talmud is more revered than Torah?
Click to expand...
Talmud and Bible

it is ok to violate a heathen girl, and it's ok to have sex with a 3-year old girl
Click to expand...
The Talmud Does Not Permit Sex With A Three Year Old

that all the lands belong to the Jews, that God created non-Jews to look human for the sake of Jews, etc.
Click to expand...
Gentiles

if you want to come back with questions after reading these, please feel free to do so.

my question to you is, who the hell is telling you these lies? why do you suppose they are doing so?

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
Hi--

Well, I think I got two problems :)
1) I am a very, very curious person and read anything
2) Sometimes I fall for the stuff read without checking first, although I try to be cautious most of the time.

Perhaps, the people who make those claims about Talmud are the same that make similar claims about the Holy Qur'an.

Thank you for those links. I will check them. If I have any questions, I will come back.
 
Just to add, the way Jews view Talmud reminds me of how many Muslims view Hadiths. They make the same claims: Talmud/Hadiths are practical and Torah/Qur'an cannot be understood as well without Talmud/Hadiths.
 
Talmud is more or less the book of jewish jurisprudence, more like fiqah books in islam that cover laws, ethics etc. Torah is like Quran. So ofcourse talmud is more practical, has more of a "utilitarian value". Doesnt necessarily mean its more revered.
 
Amica said:
Hello,

I have a couple of questions:

1) Is it true that Talmud is more revered than Torah?
2) I read some verses from the Talmud (English translation, online) and found some rather scary statements, such as it is ok to violate a heathen girl, and it's ok to have sex with a 3-year old girl, that all the lands belong to the Jews, that God created non-Jews to look human for the sake of Jews, etc. Do most Jews really believe this?

Thanks for you replies.
Click to expand...


Nothing of the above is true but among people with an anti-Jewish attitude. As far as I am concerned, I look at the Talmud as fences around the Torah. Not only to make transgressions to the Torah commandments more remote, but also to explain the Torah to the novice in the understanding of Torah laws.
Ben
 
Ben Masada said:
Nothing of the above is true but among people with an anti-Jewish attitude. As far as I am concerned, I look at the Talmud as fences around the Torah. Not only to make transgressions to the Torah commandments more remote, but also to explain the Torah to the novice in the understanding of Torah laws.
Ben
Click to expand...

The ages in those texts dont refer to actual ages as in from birth to age three but refer to gematria numbers and their meanings. :rolleyes:
 
Ben Masada said:
Nothing of the above is true but among people with an anti-Jewish attitude. As far as I am concerned, I look at the Talmud as fences around the Torah. Not only to make transgressions to the Torah commandments more remote, but also to explain the Torah to the novice in the understanding of Torah laws.
Ben
Click to expand...
Number 3 – resurrection, divine completeness

"Destroy this temple and in THREE days I will raise it up" (Jn 2.19).
There are THREE cases in the OT where people were raised from the dead, and Jesus raised THREE people from the dead in His earthly ministry (the widow's son, Jairus's daughter and Lazarus). Divine completeness (the Trinity) is found in Mat 28.19: "Go … in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit", implying THREE persons in ONE.
 
donnann said:
Number 3 – resurrection, divine completeness

"Destroy this temple and in THREE days I will raise it up" (Jn 2.19).
There are THREE cases in the OT where people were raised from the dead, and Jesus raised THREE people from the dead in His earthly ministry (the widow's son, Jairus's daughter and Lazarus). Divine completeness (the Trinity) is found in Mat 28.19: "Go … in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit", implying THREE persons in ONE.
Click to expand...
I think you need to stay out of the Jewish area. No one likes to be preached at, or proselytized to. I'm not going to ask you again.

v/r

Q

moderator
 
donnann said:
Divine completeness (the Trinity) . . . Father and the Son . . . THREE persons in ONE.
Click to expand...
God is one . Father /Mother -divine and Son -divine /human qualities. This is God's nature .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
voice said:
God is one . Father /Mother -divine and Son -divine /human qualities. This is God's nature .
Click to expand...

El is father of the gods he has a female counterpart that he is one with even though two as well as three.
 
Is there more than one Talmud?
The Babylonian (Bavli) Talmud is just the name of the location where it was compiled from? Nothing to do with Mesopotamian religion, is that correct?
 
donnann said:
The ages in those texts dont refer to actual ages as in from birth to age three but refer to gematria numbers and their meanings. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


The bottom line is that not all Jews, to answer your question, believe in midrashim. They are used as parables, to illustrate a point.
Ben
 
donnann said:
Number 3 – resurrection, divine completeness

"Destroy this temple and in THREE days I will raise it up" (Jn 2.19).
There are THREE cases in the OT where people were raised from the dead, and Jesus raised THREE people from the dead in His earthly ministry (the widow's son, Jairus's daughter and Lazarus). Divine completeness (the Trinity) is found in Mat 28.19: "Go … in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit", implying THREE persons in ONE.
Click to expand...


As you can see, with your first statement above, you and we all know that Jesus did not mean the physical Temple per se, but his own body. Perhaps not Jesus himself but the Hellenists who wrote the gospels. In a parable form, therefore. And so were the following episodes about resurrections performed by Jesus; within the context of parables, and not as real events.

And for the Trinity, Jesus himself in answer to a question about the greatest of the commandments, he said that God is One and the only Lord. Read Mark 12:29. Therefore, he would not contradict himself with Father, son and Holy Spirit.
Ben
 
Etu Malku said:
Is there more than one Talmud?
The Babylonian (Bavli) Talmud is just the name of the location where it was compiled from? Nothing to do with Mesopotamian religion, is that correct?
Click to expand...


That's correct. If there is anything to a knowlegeable reader that reminds him or her of mesopotamian religion, it must be a midrash to illustrate a point. But there is more than one Talmud. We have also the Jerusalem Talmud, which sometimes is loosely called the Palestinian Talmud.
Ben
 
Etu Malku said:
Dude . . . you don't listen . . . Be Gone!
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Hey Malku, with all my respects, not too nice to tell someone to be gone just because he or she thinks differently from us. Allow me to tell you what happened to me here in Israel a certain Shabbat afternoon, about 10 years ago.

I heard a knocking at my door, I oppened it up and there was a family of five members of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church asking me, very politely, if they could speak to me about Jesus. I said, why not? Just come in and feel yourselves right at home.

They had come to proselytize me and they repeated that visit for the next two months, every Shabbat. After a month, they were listening more and speaking much less. After two months they asked for the address of the local Orthodox Bet Din and, within eitht months later, I got an invitation to attend their conversion ceremony, where I was introduced as "the responsible for their having found the Truth." In these very words mind you.

The two girls of the family married two nice Jewish young Israelis and both of them today have two children each. It means I have indirectly caused Judaism to grow by nine nephashote. (souls) If I had said "be gone" to them at the door, on that Shabbat, long time ago, Judaism would not have these nine precious happy souls today. Nice experience, don't you think so?
Ben
 
farhan said:
Talmud is more or less the book of jewish jurisprudence, more like fiqah books in islam that cover laws, ethics etc. Torah is like Quran. So ofcourse talmud is more practical, has more of a "utilitarian value". Doesnt necessarily mean its more revered.
Click to expand...
I see the Talmud, both, Mishnah and Gemara as a pluralistic collection. The contributions of the Rabbis is complementary, in some cases they are even opposed to each other. This is indeed similar to Islam fiqh. However, I see also a difference:
The Talmud has timelines set; you have the Tanach behind (not contained) that was closed appropriately in time of the prophanation of the 2nd Temple by the Greek (around 320 BCE)
You have the Mishnah closed about 100 years before it was written down (around 20 CE),
the Gemara (until around 500 CE)
and the comments (Rashi died 1105 CE), whereas fiqh is conservative but still develops until present.
 
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