Spiritual Stages Advice?

[Persona]

I know that truth is more complicated than labels and stages, but it can be helpful to navigate our way, if we can define common experiences.

Like Erikson and Freud defined stages of human development, some, like Jim Marion have defined Spiritual stages of development...

1. Archaic Consciousness of Infants
2. Magical Consciousness of Children
3. Mythic Consciousness - Pre-Adolescence
4. Rational Consciousness
5. Vision-Logic Consciousness
6. Psychic Consciousness

7. Dark Night of the Senses
8. Subtle Consciousness
9. Dark Night of the soul
10. Resurrection from the Dark Night
11. Christ (or however you define God) Consciousness
12. Nondual Consciousness

In my experience, we don't necessarily go through these stages like a ladder... but more integrally.

Does anybody know much about #7 - #12?
Any guidance for this, especially the dark night of the soul... or as Carl Jung explained, confronting you shadow self?

 

[Lunitik]

7. I never heard of this, I imagine it is something related to whether your senses are real, whether they are reliable - this is usually part of 8 though.
8. This means you are more aware of energy fields, auras, this sort of thing.
9. This is where you start questioning existence, what you are doing here, why this existence is so. It is perhaps the hardest stage to go through, there is constant deep depression until you get through it. You will have to die here, in a way, the crucifixion of Jesus signifies this.
10. This is the resurrection which again is synonymous with Jesus today. Both 9 and 10 are actually quite a common themes among all mystery schools dating back to ancient Egypt.
11. This is the resurrected consciousness, the witness of the East.
12. This is the supreme state, although it is not found in normal activity, it is experience of oneness, it is actually a return to the Dark Night of the Soul but without the fighting which accompanied the original discovery. 11 and 12 are not at all different, it is just that Christ Consciousness seems here to be used to mean the functional state, while non-duality was what Christ went into when he would leave to prayer alone.

I have used Christian terminology because it will be closest to Jung who was a Jew, it applies to all steams however.

I also think perhaps 5 and 6 need explaining, for normal human experiencing stops at 4.

5. This seems to be about what kensho and satori are pointing towards in Buddhism, experiences of truth which are brief.
6. This is similar to 8, only it is more intuition, you are not actually aware directly you just feel certain things about another and this sort of thing.

I really wouldn't actually worry about these though if I were you, number twelve points at the goal, find that and the rest will be found along the way. It is not good to try to understand the path in stages, for now you will bring mind too much in, you will try to accomplish each in order and sometimes this is not valid. In your list here, it is certainly invalid because many are actually the same thing - this shows Jung is speculating, he has not understood through experience.

Every religious founder and many others have gone to the heights, look into the words of these men - you will waste less time avoiding actual scriptures for they mask much and have been changed much over the years due to their relationship with power.

Good luck.

 

[Persona]

Lunitik,
Thank you for your response!
I agree that scriptures need to be taken with the grain of salt, considering biblical canon history.

My experience in this is that these stages may have a general climb... but every now & then I go back or forward.
I wonder if I'm going through some type of shadow self/dark night thing.
About a year ago, all of these sexual issues came up & I was thinking & feeling like a teenager... But I kept it under wraps.
Now it's like a weird kind of depression... not like other depressions I've experienced.

Do you know if the dark night is ongoing - like a trench... or is it valleys and peeks?
Who would you suggest reading, who's made this spiritual trek & written about it?

 

[Lunitik]

Lunitik,
Thank you for your response!
I agree that scriptures need to be taken with the grain of salt, considering biblical canon history.

My experience in this is that these stages may have a general climb... but every now & then I go back or forward.
I wonder if I'm going through some type of shadow self/dark night thing.
About a year ago, all of these sexual issues came up & I was thinking & feeling like a teenager... But I kept it under wraps.
Now it's like a weird kind of depression... not like other depressions I've experienced.

Do you know if the dark night is ongoing - like a trench... or is it valleys and peeks?
Who would you suggest reading, who's made this spiritual trek & written about it?

Repression is ALWAYS unhealthy, it isn't depression that happens with it though, it is that now the repressed ideas have become more powerful. You cannot fight these ideas, you have to permit and remain detached from them. The more you think to ignore them, the more you give the idea attention and this provides it with more power!

The Dark Night of the Soul is not related to this, it is about question your very existence and eventually leads to a type of non-existence - this is what enlightenment essentially is, you permit yourself to not exist that God can arise in you - or Higher Self, whatever you prefer. What seems to be happening with you is not this, it is simply that you are too much identified with the mind still, and thus struggling with it through it - you are splitting your mind into that which doesn't want this thought, and the thought itself.

I would still recommend meditation and self-inquiry though. Meditation to try to bring these back together and realize it is stupid to have either thought - for or against both retain the idea, and eventually the idea rules you. Self-inquiry to see the base of this repression, simply say "repression, repression" and see what the reply is as to why you are repressing. I think you will find it has something to do with trying to gain approval from someone, and thus because you are insecure and do not really know who you are. Who are you actually, and is this effected at all by these thoughts?

Embrace what is being repressed and see where it takes you, what is the harm? I imagine it is some homosexual tendencies, but it can only be looked at through experience - you will simply find that there is no interest actually because you will be too alike, there will not be anything to make things interesting. Now, the thought can be dropped as absurd, but then you can look at whether straight relationships have any interest as well...

You see, the soul is neither male nor female, and has lived before as both sexes, but what it actually wants is to become whole itself. That means male and female must be transcended, and once there is no idea for sex remaining that energy can be used spiritually. Sex energy is actually life energy in its lowest form, but since it is localized here it is going to cause problems fighting it. Only when you see it for what it is can you go beyond it...

 

[Lunitik]

This will perhaps seem like strange advice, it is the only way to really drop the though though: to see it for what it is, foolishness.

It will seem to you that I am saying you should go ahead and sin, yes, I am saying sin so completely that you will not want to repeat it again. No guilt can do this, guilt only means you have obsessed over the bad deed, you are looking at the past and want to change it. Guilt will cause you to fight more and more, you will try to force the idea out, but it will not work, you are simply giving the thought more attention, and whatsoever you focus on you are directing your energy towards.

If you can go into this completely, try to look into the object of the thought, you see that it was never even worth your time from the start. Perhaps you will see even that this idea is your true nature, what is wrong in it? Either way, the thought will no more control you, you will be no more as a broken record, repeating the same thought over and over.

Do not imprison yourself in what your own judgments, else how will you ever become free? You have to realize there are no chains, only then are you free and there is no other higher spiritual aspiration than freedom. We strive for pseudo-freedoms, outer freedoms, because of this spiritual aspiration. We become infatuated with ideals, not realizing these promises of freedom are just to ensure your imprisonment. The true freedom is for the spirit, to break free of separation, to realize what it really is. You are too much involved with the body, so you are concerned about its desires thinking it is you desiring it. No, you are merely the observer of the desire, but the more you watch it the more real it becomes.

All problems in the world are about trying to justify your separation, this I call ego. Identification that "these are my thoughts" causes all conflict, the identification that "this is my body" causes much suffering and anguish at the realization it is temporary and delicate. You are not this combination, you are not the bodymind, the ego. You are the observer of this, the one giving these power. The best way to stop this is to see directly the stupidity of doing it, that you have become a slave to these things, that you fuel them by giving them attention.

When you get in your car, do you begin to think "this is me"? It is not different, the body is just your vehicle, and the mind like the windows out to the road, your way of understanding what is going on. You remain seated inside, utilizing both but you will say it is foolish to believe you are either - and it is. Both are useful things, for without the vehicle you cannot move around very efficiently, and without the windows you would constantly crash. Utilize but do not identify...

 

[Persona]

Lunitik,
Thanks for your comments.
I agree that repression is unhealthy... & that it can manifest in physical unhealth. I think when I feel addicted to something or someone - it's largely because I'm running from something within me.

Like you mentioned, sometimes it's better to screw up if we learn & progress rather than just staying put. Yet, I'm married with children, so what I do doesn't just affect me but them too. When I was a teen, I ran away from home & had plenty of screw ups - maybe enough to last a lifetime! lol I was raped & sexually abused, while at the same time was raised by generally good, but very conservative, sexually paranoid & somewhat dysfunctional parents. I experienced a lot of shame - damned if I did (religious shame of sex), damned if I didn't (guys making me feel like their weenie was going to fall of if they didn't release).

I have missed true mothering, & that can lead some women to choose other women over men. But not me. I don't trust women generally. I have a few friends that are exceptions, but it seems that many women end up being jealous or threatened by me. The way I know is that one of my roommates wrote something indicating as such, mocking me. I've been ganged up by women in one way or the other many times since I was little... not physically, but socially. I want to trust them, but I trust men more... I don't trust men sexually, but I trust them not to stab me in the back or be jealous or play mind games.

I hope you don't mind me sharing all of this with you.
I was happy to meet you. I don't know much about you - but I sense that we can help each other somehow. I realize "the kingdom/experience of God is within" & not external & getting attached to anything or anyone conditional is setting ourselves up for hurt. Yet, I don't want to be paralyzed for fear of getting hurt & also sometimes we need others & others need us.

I've always believed that we existed before life & will continue to exist afterwards. Yet, the details are still fuzzy.

The last couple of years have been incredible... I'm like a different person within - how I think. I realize everything we think is illusion because it's not 100% truth. As you mentioned, I feel somewhat like I've died... it's sad to realize how every time I was excited, I was fooling myself. Of course, the upside is the realization that every time I was down in the dumps, I was also fooling myself. I'm not sure where to go from here, Lunitik. Maybe learning how to orchestrate illusions in a way that work?

 

[Persona]

I appreciate your ideas & suggestions - especially about meditation.

 

[Lunitik]

I would ask, are these past experience still your reality? Why are you pulling them along with you still? This is only going to be a burden, you can't change what has happened, only this moment is real, these things will pull you away from this. You must learn to be total in the moment, but these things are like resistors to the currents within you, they make it harder for your inner energies to circulate. You say you feel like a new person, yet the old person is still there in it it sounds like. Give yourself permission to drop these things, free yourself from all of this and reclaim your energies! If this is difficult, look within your reasons, see the validity of them.

Alcoholics anonymous' serenity prayer is awesome:

"God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen."

The past is a dead thing, why carry a corpse with you?

Also, do not consider thoughts as illusion, this is not the case. What is an illusion is that you are the mind, that you are the body, but still these things are actual. You are to learn to utilize them, to be the master over them instead of letting them be your master, that is all. Do not look at things as false or true, this is another duality. Simply learn to be differentiated from them, find out what you actually are by going deeper into yourself, but first you have to look into them more - why have they happened, why are you carrying them still, did you learn what this has tried to show?

It will be hard, I remember looking at these types of words and wanting to get away from them, wanting to fight with it, I didn't want to know what the intent was. This also is ok, but you have to try to find out why this response is happening if it is there...

The spiritual path is about purifying your being, you can say like cleaning the mirror of your soul, cleansing it of all the dirt that has gathered during your life. When you can do this, absolute reality is all that is left - residing in absolute reality is enlightenment.

This can happen this moment, or you can continue avoiding, this is your choice and neither is bad. You cannot rush the process, it is already planned when and how you will be released from all of this. Simply find the nature of oneness within yourself, contemplate what remains when all opposites are dropped or merged - doesn't matter which - allow yourself to keep going until only that is left, even what you think you are is a duality somehow because you consider yourself separate, what is its opposite?

 

[Thomas]

Hi Persona —

Just for reference sake, with reference to your question, I've offered a Catholic overview of a system that seems to claim some Christian frame of reference, thereby necessarily assuming a complete overview of Christianity ... my primary issue is with common terms of reference that may not be properly understood in terms of an holistic Christian (and here I would say traditional) model.

Overall I would agree with the point that systems necessarily seek to order something that is in itself more organic, more holistic, and thus systems tend to create steps or stages that might not be accurate.

Some work system on a linear basis: you learn this, and then you learn that, and then you learn that. Others treat systems organically and holistically, you don't engage with steps or stages, but with the whole system, right from the off, and take what you can.

I think the organic model is the more real.

7. Dark Night of the Senses
From the very start, life is conditioned by the limit of its senses. You start learning something, and in so doing you're moving from the darkness of ignorance to the light of understanding.

Its not a stage in a journey, its part of the continuum.

8. Subtle consciousness.
A misnomer, I think. It's simply more informed, or more aware, or more open.

9. Dark Night of the soul
Are we talking St John of the Cross, who made the phrase famous? If so, why have we abandoned his system? You can't pluck something out of one system, something from another, and cobble something else together ...

The womb is the first dark night of the soul.
The journey then is to the light.

The problem with systems is that man is not closed within a system, but creates systems to navigate through the infinite experience — he creates forms to render the formless intelligible, to the senses, the mind and the soul, but the spirit is beyond forms.

When one is 'in the spirit' the forms of its expression are translucent to it, indeed they become transparent ... to great an emphasis on the system, is to see the letter and not the spirit.

The seeker is always drawn beyond what is known, and what is not yet known is the dark night. God, for example, is beyond sensible forms, beyond rational forms, and beyond all finite forms ... the dark night always beckons, but it is always a progress made in faith, not in knowledge, knowledge is nothing but the systematic ordering of experience.

10. Resurrection from the Dark Night
That's when you see the light ... a breakthrough. Its when you learn to read, for example, and the marks become more than strings of letters on the page. It's when the scientist or the engineer 'discovers' the next step, as another example.

11. Christ (or however you define God) Consciousness
Is one.

12. Nondual Consciousness
Same as 11 ... and yet the knower is always and infinitely greater than the sum of what is known.

Dopn't know if that helps ... as a rule, the more complex the system, the less perfect. St Bonaventure did this in seven steps, in The Journey of the Soul into God. so I would treat that as a better system, certainly using Christian ideas.

Eckhart traverses the Dark Night in all its forms.

+++

In closing, I would not be too quick to discount Scripture — it's been proven more than enough for the realisation of everything addressed here, and more. Without it, you're really in the dark altogether ... it's way beyond systems.

If one understood symbolism, or mythology which is a linguistic system to investigate symbolism (and definitely not something 'preadolescent') then read the Johannine account of the race of the two apostles to the tomb on the morning of the Resurrection (John 20) one would see a different story.

In that account, John symbolises the intellect (that flies ahead, but cannot enter the dark — v4-5). Peter the will, the drives the intellect (from behind, it powers it) but can take that step into the dark that at which the intellect recoils (v6).

The intellect, then informed by the will, draws its conclusion — systematises its understanding (v8). But here, having understood something for themselves, in their own way, both withdraw, "The disciples therefore departed again to their home" (v10)

Only the soul (the various Marys in Scripture symbolise the soul in its many aspects) comes to true understanding (via the angels, which are divine messengers and in the Orthodox Tradition, pure intellects — v12-13) , and consequently meets her master (v14-17).

This ends with an often perplexing discourse: "Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me, for I am not yet ascended to my Father" (v17). The common assumption is that Jesus must undergo some change of state, and that he is in a period of transition ... but this is not quite accurate, according to His own words (cf John 10:30 "I and the father are one").

One might, if one dare, add to the text: "Do not touch me, for I am not yet ascended to my Father in your eyes". Jesus is never apart from the Father, the Father is in the Son, the Son is in the Father (and They in the Holy Spirit, and He in Them). But the Magdalene has yet to see Christ as He truly is, not just man resurrected, but God ascended. If she 'touches' Him, then she fixes that form in herself, His physical resurrection becomes 'real' in that it is present to the senses. And this is the very thing He does not want, that she (and we) should know God through His manifestation in the world, in the material sense, but come to know God in God, God as God, other than the world. God in Spirit, which transcends all forms, but is immanently present in them.

"... But go to my brethren, and say to them: I ascend to my Father and to your Father, to my God and your God" (v17)

Where are His brethren? Locked in hiding (v19), in one sense, hiding from the Jews, in another hiding from the Cross, which they still did not fully understand. Locked in the system they had unconsciously created to explain their experience of Our Lord, a system that was deficient in the understanding of the deeper implication of the Passion (cf v9).

If more evidence is required, the meeting of the two disciples with the Risen Lord on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24).

Both passages contain a more complete outline of the spiritual journey, presented in an organic, holistic and meta-systematic way.

And if you want the utterly transcending exegesis, in Luke 24, only one of the two disciples is named (Cleophas), the other remains anonymous. In the Oral Tradition of the Ancient Church maintains the other disciple is you.

The way to the spirit is through the letter, not around it. Scripture is a way without compare.

+++
Something of a lenten meditation.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Lunitik]

In closing, I would not be too quick to discount Scripture — it's been proven more than enough for the realisation of everything addressed here, and more. Without it, you're really in the dark altogether ... it's way beyond systems.

Scripture is dead, just words.

For me, when someone enters the Dark Night, it is time to find the real thing. It is also that in the scriptures much is masked because the masses cannot hear absolute truth, ego will come in. If you can find someone who will speak directly, it will be a huge help.

Reading scripture, strange things will be imagined because you are free to decipher for yourself. It also tends to lead to trying to find priests and the like to assist, I have never met a priest that has had the spirit glowing within them - although in what would be considered heretic branches like the Unity Church, I have encountered it. In general though, it is the blind leading the blind now, only the priest can do much damage because he is trusted yet clueless.

Belief is not helpful, trusting existence, or god to guide you to what you need can be helpful though. What is the difference? Belief is of the mind, you have convinced yourself but it is not much, it is how fanaticism happens because you yourself are not convinced. You will lash out because you have to protect this, your ego is on the line. In trust, it is of the heart, there is no real basis needed, you just remain alert to what existence is trying to show you. If you are alert enough, ever moment something will be shown to you, life itself will begin to try to help you if you permit it.

I am sorry, but I see much problems with traditions. Jesus says judge the tree by its fruit, I have yet to find a tree with all good fruit. Experience is the true teacher, the only way to find the tree of life is to let life be your guide.

 

[Lunitik]

Something of a lenten meditation.

It is contemplation at best, please do not confuse what actual meditation is.

Meditation is absolute stillness, absolute silence. It is to dissolve yourself utterly, and encounter the God within. Mind cannot meditate, for in true meditation mind is not there, how can a thinking exercise be meditation?

Prayer, also, is merely to become overcome by love, it is another type of meditation. Christians go on asking God for things though, even in prayer it is nothing but desire. Why the need to talk? God knows all you have ever thought, prayer is to give God an opportunity to say something to you. Shut up and let him speak! Just wait... yet this is false too, for now ego is expecting.

I could go on rambling, this sort of thing frustrates me, even on the road to God people permit ego to drive.

It is just absurd.

 

[Thomas]

It is contemplation at best, please do not confuse what actual meditation is

Actually, it's you who is confusing the term in Christian usage with its usage in other traditions.

The English word derives from the Latin meditatio, from a verb meditari, meaning "to think, contemplate, devise, ponder, meditate".

In the Hebrew Scriptures hāgâ (Hebrew: הגה‎), means 'to sigh' or 'murmur', but also to meditate. In the Septuagint, the Hebrew hāgâ became the Greek melete. The Latin then translated hāgâ/melete into meditatio.

The term 'meditation' was introduced as a translation for dhyāna in Buddhism and in Hinduism, which comes from the Sanskrit root dhyai, meaning to contemplate or meditate.

In the Ashtanga Yoga, in dhyana, the meditator is not conscious of the act of meditation (i.e. is not aware that s/he is meditating) but is only aware that s/he exists (consciousness of being), and aware of the object of meditation — there is still two things, the meditator and the object of meditation.

Dhyana is distinct from Dharana in that the meditator becomes one with the object of meditation. This we call contemplation. I would point out the fundamental dualism still applies, the two become one, but the one remains two, else separation or return would not be possible.

In the Christian Tradition however, there is a distinction between meditation and contemplation. Contemplation is about rest and, as you describe it, 'the encounter with God'. Meditation is a preparation. Nor is it the only way.

Mind cannot meditate, for in true meditation mind is not there, how can a thinking exercise be meditation?

How can it not be ... if the mind is not there, what is? I would argue mind is absolutely there, in fact is more there than when one is not capable of attaining meditative states, because the ill-disciplined mind is prey to the whim of the moment.

I could go on rambling, this sort of thing frustrates me, even on the road to God people permit ego to drive.

I reflect this back on yourself ... rather than knowledge, you display ignorance of the tradition, indeed many traditions, and then, in your ignorance, you assume to criticise because again, you assume you know better ... and you accuse others of ego.

The Bible states that no man can know God and live.

But man can know God and love. God is love. Life derives from love. Love is beyond knowledge, and beyond forms, because it seeks the source of knowledge and its forms.

The Divine Mind, or as we say, the Mind of Christ.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

if you want spiritual advice then my advice would be only to get it from those you know and trust. !

lots of people like to give it but very few are qualified to do so, also in spiritual matters follow your heart or your intuition or whatever you want to call it.

especially disregard any advice offered by those you need to be right all the time like luntik.

Follow your heart

 

[Lunitik]

The term 'meditation' was introduced as a translation for dhyāna in Buddhism and in Hinduism, which comes from the Sanskrit root dhyai, meaning to contemplate or meditate.

What I have stated is dhyana, it is absolutely not a thinking exercise.

How can it not be ... if the mind is not there, what is?

God.

 

[Lunitik]

if you want spiritual advice then my advice would be only to get it from those you know and trust. !

lots of people like to give it but very few are qualified to do so, also in spiritual matters follow your heart or your intuition or whatever you want to call it.

especially disregard any advice offered by those you need to be right all the time like luntik.

Follow your heart

I do not need to be right, it is irrelevant, my only purpose is to bring people home. I am irrelevant, just a tool to this end. Your ego responds negatively to me, you are not ready to come home. She is responding to truth, that is enough. It is very easy to become confused though, so I will certainly point out others misguidance to try to limit the confusion. If this thread was from you, someone I know is not responsive, I would not have spoken against Thomas, but it is not you.

You will one day find truth, I hope it is in this lifetime, but you will have to stop approaching religion with the mind - the whole purpose of religion is to go beyond mind, to know truth without the veil of mind. My words are always apocalyptic - I only speak of lifting that veil.

 

[Lunitik]

Revelation of John is exactly this, it is Johns enlightenment.

He says Michael sits on the throne in the power of God - Michael means "resembling God", it means by God he has gone beyond mind, now he is himself like God. Of course, until physical death, it remains relative, but still it is truth.

This is what Christ has pointed all towards, and it is what I point to as well. Who will hear though? Jesus once said:

"Jesus said to them: when you make the two one,
and when you make the inner as the outer
and the outer as the inner, and the above as the below, and
When you make the male and the female into a single one,
so that the male will not be male and the female not be female,
then shall you enter the kingdom."

This is all I speak on, how to find that single one, how to find the key to the kingdom yourself. Christianity has become a self help group, yet Jesus also said "unless you hate your father, your mother, your brother and sister... indeed unless you hate your own life... you cannot be my disciple". I see no Christ disciples in the world today, all seem to be fixated on making themselves better people... how can you be born again without first dying? To permit death, you must not cling to life, in this is the secret to the crucifixion and resurrection. It is not something literal as Christians understand, it is dying to yourself and arising again in God.

Why do you think Christ is in such agony before the cross? You will say he is fulfilling prophecy, but this is not how it works. Prophecy looks into the future, it means they saw Jesus crying out and reported it. Earlier, he has only experienced what the Buddhists call satori, he has experienced oneness, but he is not residing in oneness yet. It is not until after the resurrection that Jesus has become fully enlightened, he was not before.

You have to be prepared to die to experience life fully, this is the message. Thy will be done, allow God, do not insist in your own desires. No matter, you must die, why not die willingly while the body still functions? Now you can enjoy it in this place, this very existence becomes heaven. Why will you want eternal life? No matter how good it is, if you are distinct it will become boring eventually. You are that which resides in all people, why not return home and observe that multitude of experiences? Why remain something false? You are not, only God is, are you prepared to see the truth in this statement?

If you are not, religion is just entertainment for you, you have not come rightly. Religion is to be sought when you understand the foolishness of separation, only then will you be transformed.

This understanding is the dark night of the soul, the resurrection is in God, it is the realization of what you truly always were. This is called Christ consciousness, and it is the experience of non-duality, in non-duality how can you be other than God yourself? If you are not God, there is still two.

This is the human opposite, it is objective love, we are subjective love. Now there is only love, but what is it really? It is simply energy peaking in the heart, in your center.

This is samadhi, death of the personal, life as the individual - the undivided one.

 

[Lunitik]

In times past, these words would ensure this bodies end, I would suffer the same fate as Mansoor al-Hillaj or Jesus, but today we are not so restricted. Of course, then it was about the establishment remaining in control, for how can it control a free people? It will dangle freedom in front of you, always just out of your reach, promising but never giving... just using freedom to keep you imprisoned. It is no longer necessary to remain blind, yet it has become the choice of many. Strange, to allow another to tell you who you are instead of finding out yourself, why? Why conform to nonsense? See what you are, stop this charade!

 

[Lunitik]

I have explained the trinity here, partake.

Why do you accept yourself unworthy?

Drink, eat, it is the very essence of life, without realizing this you are just a zombie.

There is no shortage of either, and it is the instruction and intent of the eucharist, do not survive, you were not created merely for this. You have come here to really live, really experience, yet it is a miracle you manage to function at all.

God is not a miser, take as much as you can!

Someone said here it is not all about bliss, why not?

It is selfish, it is to be the self!

Find the self, the soul, else you are not really alive at all, you are just accidental - the result of the merging of your mother and father. You must give birth to yourself, else you remain potential, you are never actualized.

Who are you?

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

I do not need to be right, it is irrelevant, my only purpose is to bring people home. I am irrelevant, just a tool to this end

no just a tool.

ignore this tool and get advice from a trusted source, many deluded people love to give advice but its all about their ego.

really get it from a real person, not from a fake internet wannabe guru.

 

[Lunitik]

Jesus has washed the feet of his disciples, he has insisted they are his equal.

Why are you something less?