Belief a CHOICE?

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rstrats

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A number of folks on these boards are saying or at least implying that they can consciously CHOOSE to believe things. If you are one of them perhaps one of you can help me. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that. If you think that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to sa; "OK, at this moment I do not believe that "x"exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that "x" exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that "x" exists or is true?


Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is "a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron" and who hides his gold at the end of a rainbow and if caught, has to grant three wishes.￾ So, assuming that you don't already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?
 
Not exactly sure what you are asking here.

Iif you have never been able to consciously choose any of the beliefs you have, how did you come to have them? Or how do you think you came to have them. Do you believe your subconscious does this for you? Do you believe your beliefs choose you?

What mechanism causes you to believe what you believe?
 
rstrats said:
A number of folks on these boards are saying or at least implying that they can consciously CHOOSE to believe things. If you are one of them perhaps one of you can help me. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that. If you think that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to sa; "OK, at this moment I do not believe that "x"exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that "x" exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that "x" exists or is true?


Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is "a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron" and who hides his gold at the end of a rainbow and if caught, has to grant three wishes.￾ So, assuming that you don't already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?
Click to expand...

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking either. I mean, obviously you do have the ability to chose. Afterall, you choose to post here. Is it that you are just having trouble making up you mind in relation to spiritual matters? Or perhaps it's a question of deciding which belief is right or wrong? If that's the case, it's just a matter of which view you are the most comfortable with. The one that makes you feel good inside. We're all different. What works for me may not work for you and vice-versa. The thing to remember is, that doesn't make either of us right or wrong, it's just our own personal belief. You may well find that there is no need to choose any one particular path to God at all. Many take the view that all roads lead to the same place. You may also find that none of the prescribed paths suit you and that's ok as well. Choosing a path that's unique to you is perfectly acceptable.
 
Gordian Knot,

re: "Not exactly sure what you are asking here."


I'd simply like to see someone who thinks that they can consciously choose to believe things to demonstrate such an ability in real time. Can you do that?


re: "Iif you have never been able to consciously choose any of the beliefs you have, how did you come to have them?"

It's only a guess, of course, but when I've realized that I have a new belief, it may very well have been caused by some process occurring in my subconscious due to an exposure to outside stimuli, such as literature, lectures, media, conversation, reflection, experience, etc.
 
I guess I misunderstood what you were asking, but I'm not sure your question can be answered. I can't quite wrap my head around it.
 
Namaste Jesus,

re: "I guess I misunderstood what you were asking..."


And I don't understand what is unclear about my request. Either you can consciously choose to believe things or you can't. If you can, I'm simply asking you to demonstrate your ability.
 
Ok, I conciously read what you wrote and made a concious decision to answer, I was fully aware of what I was doing at the time and that was my choice. I offer this post as proof. The same would be true of a belief. After conciously reading or otherwise learning the details, I'd then make a concious decision to believe it or not.
 
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Perhaps you guys should back up a step or two and start defining things? Like 'choice'?
 
I think it's a sign of the ills of the West that the freedom to choose has become more important than the actual choices made.

It's a 'finger and the moon' thing.
 
Rstrats said "It's only a guess, of course, but when I've realized that I have a new belief, it may very well have been caused by some process occurring in my subconscious due to an exposure to outside stimuli, such as literature, lectures, media, conversation, reflection, experience, etc."

Okay then you do believe that some part of you causes this process to have a belief. You believe it is your subconscious that does this, but that your conscious mind cannot. Is that a correct summation of what you said?

If it is, my comment would be thus - if it is your subconscious making the choice, it is still you making a choice. It's not as if your subconscious is somehow detached from the rest of you. You are processing information (literature, lectures, media, conversation, reflection, experience) behind the scenes, as it were. When the process finishes your subconscious pushes the belief forward to your conscious self.

This is pure speculation on my part, as, obviously, I have no idea who you are and how you think. It is one example of how this process would work.
 
Sounds like a deep philosophical question.

Belief is a thought process which can manifest only when one is conscious. (one cannot believe when in sleep!) So thought has to be active in continuum interacting with memory and preconditioning. When one is conscious, he can make a choice between 2 things or thought.
Is someone else controlling our belief - there is no way to know so the question meaningless.
Do beliefs occur subconsciously, again there is no way to know. What happens at subconscious level is anyone's guess.

So, I feel all beliefs are your own choice to suit your needs and desires.
 
Gordian Knot,

re: "You believe it is your subconscious that does this, but that your conscious mind cannot. Is that a correct summation of what you said?"


Not quite. I didn't actually say that I believed it. I said that I'm guessing that new beliefs may come about as a result of subconscious processes.



re: "If it is, my comment would be thus - if it is your subconscious making the choice, it is still you making a choice.'


Agreed.



re: " You are processing information (literature, lectures, media, conversation, reflection, experience) behind the scenes, as it were. When the process finishes your subconscious pushes the belief forward to your conscious self."

Agreed, that is if the subconscious is indeed doing the engendering.
 
Nothingtoknow,

re: "Belief is a thought process which can manifest only when one is conscious... When one is conscious, he can make a choice between 2 things or thought."


I wonder if you might demonstrate such an ability by doing as requested in the OP?
 
rstrats said:
Nothingtoknow,

re: "Belief is a thought process which can manifest only when one is conscious... When one is conscious, he can make a choice between 2 things or thought."


I wonder if you might demonstrate such an ability by doing as requested in the OP?
Click to expand...

So, firstly I am conscious. Your description of leprechaun will associate him with my memory of similar thing which I have come across before ( hat, apron etc). But if you tell something which is not in my memory box then it's impossible to conceive. So I have created a imagination which I have never seen in real life.

If I am a child with poor development of choice faculty, then I will believe in his powers without questioning, especially if others are believing. If I am an adult I will look for probability that this can happen in real. My logic will tell me this is extremely unlikely. So I will make a choice to dismiss it. On the other hand if my desire or fear factor(rewards) is strong, then I may choose to believe ( this is what happens in god factor)

So, I don't think there is a belief one can call his original. It is always based on what we already know. What we already know(knowledge) is our memory which is preconditioned from our childhood. Anything new is just an association to that which is already formed.

Not sure if I answered your question, but let's find some common ground in the process.
Regards
 
My assumption from your initial post is that you are talking about consciously choosing to believe something, or not, in the metaphysical realm? (As opposed to consciously choosing a mundane belief, like is the sun yellow). Your example of the leprechaun leads me to think my assumption is correct. But is that indeed what you are asking?

Consciously choosing to believe more earthly matters seems to be easy and simple to me. Examine the evidence, seek out opposing evidence, balance the likelihood of accuracy and come to a conclusion.

We look up at the sky and see the sun as yellow. Turns out that is because of how the light is filtered through our atmosphere. Seen from space the sun is in reality white. In younger years I believed the former because of my knowledge base at the time. Now I know more about the subject and consciously chose to change my opinion. I now accept that the sun is white.

Rstrats does this seem reasonable to you as an example of consciously choosing what to believe?
 
I would have thought belief or non belief was a conscious choice, even if not always logical.
 
Nothingtoknow,

re: Not sure if I answered your question..."


I'm afraid that you haven't. Assuming that you don't already have a belief in them, I don't see where you say that you now believe - are convinced without a doubt - that leprechauns exist thus demonstrating that you can consciously choose to believe things.
 
Gordian Knot

re: "My assumption from your initial post is that you are talking about consciously choosing to believe something, or not, in the metaphysical realm?"


I'm talking about belief in general, regardless of the object/issue in question.



re: "Rstrats does this seem reasonable to you as an example of consciously choosing what to believe?"

Yes, but that is not what I requested. I would like to see someone demonstrate in realtime an ability to consciously choose to believe something. Can you do that using the example I suggested in the OP?
 
I think the question is wrong. I doubt anyone is suggesting that anyone can choose to believe in something they do not believe in. "I choose to believe" is more nuanced then how it appears to you. I don't know how to put it in words though, I will have to think on it.
 
Likewise, I am baffled at what you are getting at. No I cannot use your suggestion in your OP. I cannot tell you how I can come to believe in leprechauns when I don't, in fact, believe in them.

Perhaps if you tried another approach, or another example of what you mean? Because we are not understanding what you are looking for with what you have given us so far.
 
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