One woman's OBE and NDE

[Nick the Pilot]

Near death, explained - Salon.com

The first part of the article describes the woman's OBE and NDE. It is fascinating reading.

Here is a later part of the article:

"...NDEs are the vivid, realistic, and often deeply life-changing experiences of men, women, and children who have been physiologically or psychologically close to death. They can be evoked by cardiac arrest and coma caused by brain damage, intoxication, or asphyxia. They can also happen following such events as electrocution, complications from surgery, or severe blood loss during or after a delivery. They can even occur as the result of accidents or illnesses in which individuals genuinely fear they might die. Surveys conducted in the United States and Germany suggest that approximately 4.2 percent of the population has reported an NDE. It has also been estimated that more than 25 million individuals worldwide have had an NDE in the past 50 years.

"People from all walks of life and belief systems have this experience. Studies indicate that the experience of an NDE is not influenced by gender, race, socioeconomic status, or level of education. Although NDEs are sometimes presented as religious experiences, this seems to be a matter of individual perception. Furthermore, researchers have found no relationship between religion and the experience of an NDE. That is, it did not matter whether the people recruited in those studies were Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, atheist, or agnostic."

 

[b.finton]

If we only understood how near each one of us is to death at every moment, things might start to shape up around here, in the trauma of time.

b.

 

[Gordian Knot]

Finton, I SO agree with your sentiment!

Nick, the last paragraph got my attention
NDE studies also suggest that after physical death, mind and consciousness may continue in a transcendent level of reality that normally is not accessible to our senses and awareness. Needless to say, this view is utterly incompatible with the belief of many materialists that the material world is the only reality.

The reason I found this statement intriguing is that science has shown us proof positive that the material world is not indeed the only reality. It would be perhaps better stated that the material world is the only reality our senses are equipped to comprehend.

Let's look at what makes up the so called material world. I am a person, with a finite body, a chemical/electrical brain that processes all my thoughts and memories.

I am also a collaboration of 37.2 trillion cells (from Smithsonian Magazine).

I am also made up of 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms (from Jefferson Lab Science site).

Off point, but fun fact. For those of us who believe nothing ever changes. 98% of the atoms in your body are replaced yearly. In essence, you are a completely different you every single year. With an illusion of continuity.

At the atomic level where 'my' atoms end and all other atoms start is hardly a fixed line. Just as the desk upon which my hands are resting right now has a fixed line. I have an illusion of being finite, and that the things around me are finite, when in reality no such differential exists.

And don't even get me started on the subatomic world.

So what is my point to all this? We are made up of matter and energy. These two foundations of all of existence are not separate, but flow together and flow apart. There is SO much we do not understand about what it is we really are. In those levels is where I believe near death experiences dwell. When we temporarily lose the fiction that we are a finite limited thing.

And perhaps, just perhaps, it is within this underlying reality that is the place where God(s) inhabit as well.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

98% of the atoms in your body are replaced yearly. In essence, you are a completely different you every single year. With an illusion of continuity.

Hmmm, I don't know if I agree with the "completely different" part. Two toasters from the same product line are made up off 100% different atoms from each other, but they aren't really that different from each other.

I think it is very interesting that when talking about 'the self' in the material world you went the atomic-way. Completely valid of course but I would have stuck with the mind and wouldn't have gone further then brain-chemical-way.

 

[Gordian Knot]

Sticking with but one way would not be a sufficient response to the portion of the text that I highlighted. Namely that the material world is the only world. Which it absolutely is not. So I tried to go in several directions, the atomic way being but one of them.

On your first comment. Your analogy is not valid. Take a toaster, and over a years time, replace very piece of the toaster so that by the end of the year it is made up of completely new parts. None of the original parts are left. Does it still function as a toaster. Yes it does. Does it mean it is still the original toaster? I would say no. Does that fact make any real difference? I think it does. More about that later.

Additionally toasters are not self aware, so the analogy fails on that level as well. People are self aware (although sometimes I do wonder, but that is a topic for a different day!). People perceive a continuity that they are they throughout their lives. But that is not true. In actuality they are replaced by new 'parts' once a year. After a year's time, none of the atoms that made you you still exist as part of you. Do you still function as yourself? Yes. But are you the same you? Obviously you are not.

My take away from this reality is that the illusion that we are consistently the same is a delusion. That there are real spiritual and religious implications to the fact that we are not the same. Not to mention that there is an invaluable lesson as well. We need to be wary of our illusions about reality. Things are not always what they seem. Actually things are mostly not what they seem.

A better understanding of this reality might go a long way in helping human societies perceive themselves and others with a better understanding about what our differences might really be.

 

[Aussie Thoughts]

Sticking with but one way would not be a sufficient response to the portion of the text that I highlighted. Namely that the material world is the only world. Which it absolutely is not. So I tried to go in several directions, the atomic way being but one of them.

On your first comment. Your analogy is not valid. Take a toaster, and over a years time, replace very piece of the toaster so that by the end of the year it is made up of completely new parts. None of the original parts are left. Does it still function as a toaster. Yes it does. Does it mean it is still the original toaster? I would say no. Does that fact make any real difference? I think it does. More about that later.

Additionally toasters are not self aware, so the analogy fails on that level as well. People are self aware (although sometimes I do wonder, but that is a topic for a different day!). People perceive a continuity that they are they throughout their lives. But that is not true. In actuality they are replaced by new 'parts' once a year. After a year's time, none of the atoms that made you you still exist as part of you. Do you still function as yourself? Yes. But are you the same you? Obviously you are not.

My take away from this reality is that the illusion that we are consistently the same is a delusion. That there are real spiritual and religious implications to the fact that we are not the same. Not to mention that there is an invaluable lesson as well. We need to be wary of our illusions about reality. Things are not always what they seem. Actually things are mostly not what they seem.

A better understanding of this reality might go a long way in helping human societies perceive themselves and others with a better understanding about what our differences might really be.

Damn well done mate! Insight like this is rare these days.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Your analogy is not valid.

I really hate these statements.

Take a toaster, and over a years time, replace very piece of the toaster so that by the end of the year it is made up of completely new parts. None of the original parts are left. Does it still function as a toaster. Yes it does. Does it mean it is still the original toaster? I would say no. Does that fact make any real difference? I think it does. More about that later.

Every human is somewhat different from every other, but in my example I took two things that was, for the purpose of the example, exactly the same. Two toasters who are made from the same plans are the same despite being made up of different atoms. Just as a human my change all the atoms in their body but none would know the difference, since it's still after the same plan they are essentially the same.

 

[Gordian Knot]

Simple answer. Don't make those kind of statements and I won't call you on them. Ain't that big of me? That's what fiends, errr, I mean friends are for!

Anywho, I will cede the point to you. Since that really wasn't where I was going anyway. The point of my comments was, perhaps a bit too indirectly, about the OP's post. A potential different origin of NDE's.

Instead of a religious occurrence, I wonder if it might be a contact with the cellular level or even atomic level of existence. That most all NDE's are similar no matter what culture or what religion suggests to me it is not tied to religion at all. Something more fundamental that we all share.

We all share the illusion of the material world. When our consciousness is disengaged from our material body, perhaps we connect to deeper levels of existence within our body. It's a theory. Well maybe it's really a hypothesis. Heck, maybe it is just a thought.

 

[pasqualie1980]

You OBE every night, its just you are asleep and do not remember it. its called going to the astral or dream world when you sleep. The difference in people who report it is they are consciously awake while their body is asleep. its why you get sleep paralysis, your body and mind disengage so you do move while you are dreaming. Some people become awake in sleep paralysis and become fearful but its normal.

You can learn how to do it, many people talk about how to do it like Robert Bruce, its just takes practice and patience.