Was Jesus a peacemaker or a militant Zealot?

[WolfgangvonUSA]

Was Jesus a peacemaker or a militant Zealot?

Mat 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

OR

Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

 

[Sacredstar]

Well the sword symbolically represents the truth, which is double edged and the point of the sword is to prick the conscience of those that are sleeping or have their eyes closed. Jesus called them blind masters, the blind, the deaf, dumb and lame.

The sword of truth is to route out all negativity and does indeed divide, for each has a choice to choose love or fear. So like many of the things that Jesus said, I feel much was taken out of context. I agree he was zealous but I also feel that he learnt from his actions in thought, word and deed and by the time he left us, he knew one of the best ways to reach and seduce people was with love and compassion. Although like many good spiritual teachers he was a hard taskmaster with those that studied closely with him, did he not, tell his disciples off for being drunk and intoxicated by him.

Truly a man of our times, for every great teacher becomes redundant if they have taught their students to be in awe of themselves instead of the teacher.

But yet there were many men called Jesus, I discovered in research that Joshua was also called Jesus, also the brother James was called Jesus, so maybe there is many a man wrapped up into the one we know and love. Joshua (Jesus son of Nave) led the Egyptians with Moses out of Egypt and took on the mantle when Moses died. Joshua was also a military man. Scholars now say that the Dead Sea Scrolls were written prior to the birth of Jesus of Nazereth so is it possible that the Teacher of Righteousness was Joshua?

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

 

[Marsh]

The sword of truth is to route out all negativity and does indeed divide, for each has a choice to choose love or fear.

Truly a man of our times, for every great teacher becomes redundant if they have taught their students to be in awe of themselves instead of the teacher.

Can you please explain these two points a little? I can't decide if I agree with you or not.

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Marsh

"The sword of truth is to route out all negativity and does indeed divide, for each has a choice to choose love or fear."

I will do my best, the point of the sword of truth in this context is to prick the conscience, this is what I feel Jesus was doing when he addressed the priests, but they did not accept and embrace him with love, they stepped into fear due to their comfort zones being challenged. They had a choice they chose fear not love, another reason Jesus was cross they were stuck in self gratification and Jesus perceived that they were not getting on with job of self mastery and teaching this to others. e.g. 'when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner'. But yet Jesus showed us that he evolved on his journey and even Paul states that Jesus had a 'weakness', which was the way he chose to communicate due to his frustration. So the double edged sword of truth can heal or it can hurt, like all things the
balance is important, with the Grace of GOD to communicate from the heart of compassion then voices are more easily heard, but yet one cannot shift the box before it is ready to be shifted.

I have to say that St Francis of Assisi managed to do it in a way that got the clergy to support him instead of crucify him.

"Truly a man of our times, for every great teacher becomes redundant if they have taught their students to be in awe of themselves instead of the teacher."

Master Jesus was teaching his disciples self mastery, to become master of the emotions of the human self, to know thyself and their own divinity, to enable them to achieve direct communion with GOD. To be responsible independent thinkers, which is another reason why he taught in parables. To take responsibility for their own understanding and appreciation. Once people self realise and truly discover themselves they no longer need a teacher, if the teacher has done their job properly. This is why Jesus got frustrated with some of them, when they got drunk and intoxicated by him, because he knew they were not getting what he was trying to teach them. But yet at the end of the day he taught them well, because they did stand up and be counted and take the work forward in their own way. Eventhough we may not agree with some of the outcomes, I feel sure that the positivity outweighs the negative crimes carried out in his name.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

 

[WolfgangvonUSA]

Was Jesus a peacemaker or a militant Zealot?


Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Since the use of word 'sword' on this sentence is strongly contrasted with bringing peace, it should seem clear the this sword is symbolic only of its most obvious meaning, which is war and/or strife and division.

Please recall that the God of the OT often sent His people out to extermiate entire enemy tribes. I find it amusing that modern Christians see Yahweh and Yahshua only in terms of peace and love, and they forget He is a God of Wrath quite frequently, especially toward the seven accursed Canaanite tribes whom He repeatedly orders completely destroyed, even the kids and the newborn babies!!!

Isn't it ironic that the surviving Canaanites would come to rule the House of Judah under the reign of King Herod and seek to cause the crucifixion of Yahshua, the Son of Yahweh?

But I guess they finally get their butts kicked as described in the Book of Obadiah.

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Wolfgang

Well some scholars are even saying that the GOD of the OT is not the same one of the NT.

From a spiritualist view point and experience of communicating with the higher realms, the messages are always of supreme love and light.

So how do we know whether what has been portrayed as a wrathful GOD was actually lower vibrational energies communicating?

Early this year I saw the most amazing man sitting on a huge golden throne, I asked him if he was GOD, he replied no I am Melchizedek.

So how do we know whether the prophets of the bible actually questioned the entities that they were communicating with and maybe they assumed they were speaking to GOD? I make no assumptions with my communications with the spiritual realms and nor should anyone else.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

 

[WolfgangvonUSA]

Dear Wolfgang

Well some scholars are even saying that the GOD of the OT is not the same one of the NT.

From a spiritualist view point and experience of communicating with the higher realms, the messages are always of supreme love and light.

So how do we know whether what has been portrayed as a wrathful GOD was actually lower vibrational energies communicating?

Early this year I saw the most amazing man sitting on a huge golden throne, I asked him if he was GOD, he replied no I am Melchizedek.

So how do we know whether the prophets of the bible actually questioned the entities that they were communicating with and maybe they assumed they were speaking to GOD? I make no assumptions with my communications with the spiritual realms and nor should anyone else.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

How do we know if God is speaking to us or whether we are suffering from a psychiatric disorder? We don't, so unless such visions are shared collectively by a large and diverse group of people I would personally doubt the authenticity of such phenomenon.

As to myself I have not have any such visions not do I claim personal communication from God. But I tend to beleive in the authenticty of the Old Testament more than the emasculated god of the New Testament, which may have been altered, santized or revised AND interpreted to reflect the 'touchy-feely' nicy-ness of more recent times.

As to real tangible evidence, the content of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which has been preserved from alteration and revision by later generations, attests to the continuance of a warlike nature of the Old Testament into the era of the New Testament.

Just remember that the Zealots of those days had no problem with killing the Herodian/Edomite rulers of Judea in those days. They were called Sicari or Assasins. And they honored and followed the tradition of the Phinneas Priesthood.

 

[Ciel]

Oh shame Wolfgang,
"How do we know if God is speaking to us or...................."
Dare I say that is why we are here, to understand who God is.
You say,"We dont"
Well there are many who have made it a life's journey. We do.
And yes God changes as consciousness on earth evolves.
For why else would we be here, except to interact with God?

 

[iBrian]

Well the sword symbolically represents the truth, which is double edged and the point of the sword is to prick the conscience of those that are sleeping or have their eyes closed. Jesus called them blind masters, the blind, the deaf, dumb and lame.

The sword of truth is to route out all negativity and does indeed divide, for each has a choice to choose love or fear.

That's a very good application of symbolism with the passages detailed - thanks for that.

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Brian

Thank you, I also found this yesterday.

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4.12

And the power of the word is now proven by science to harm or heal. So these truths were clearly in the scripture but yet maybe the translators of that time did not truly conceive the actuality, or full extent of these statements. For if they truly understood them surely the church would not have provided so many negative affirmations.

This thread ties in nicely with the thread on the WORD and

in the beginning was the WORD.

The power of words are truly amazing www.hado.net this website shows pictures on the impact that words have on water, and as we know humans are 70-80% water.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Wolfgang

GOD speaks to everyone but not everyone listens.
It is only lack of trust and judgement that stands in the way.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

 

[WolfgangvonUSA]

Dear Wolfgang

GOD speaks to everyone but not everyone listens.
It is only lack of trust and judgement that stands in the way.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

Here are 2 principles that are fundamental to the process of uncovering truth embodied in two questions and mentioned in a great book called "People in Qunadires" by Wendall Johnson. The questions are:

1. What do you mean?

2. How do you know?

Simply believing things because they are pleasant leads only to delusion, disappointment and psychosis. Mental institutions are full of such cases.

This does not mean that there are not wonderful and lovely aspects to reality. There are!! But beliefs that are based on faith and wishful thinking rather than reason will ultimately lead to an undesired destination.

Saying that "GOD speaks to everyone but not everyone listens" is an unsupported and pretentious statement and is reflective of an incredibly pompous attitude.

Dare to come down from your castle in the sky and humbly seek the truth among your fellow humans who must find truth the old-fashioned way - through reason and research rather than issuing vain proclamations in which you pretend to know God's methods and purposes.

Nobody but God knows whether "GOD speaks to everyone or whether or not everyone listens".

And remember: "Those who will not be humbled will be humiliated"

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Wolfgang

Research is great but there is nothing like the real experience.

Respect is a state of being, but to honour another is to pay homage to their sacred divinity.

Mental institutions are full of people who have had genunine spiritual awakenings that the medical profession do not understand, so they lable them and put them on mind altering drugs. Which then take them on a spiral into hell. Sadly the medical profession are in delusion of the harm they co-create due to their innocence and lack of true understanding of the spiritual realms. So from my perspective much of the mental health profession is a crime against humanity.

Thank God this is now being recognised and Prince Charles has called for a new spriritual paradigm in medicine. A group of doctors at the Royal College are now investigating this with a view to innovative and drastic change.

Onwards and upwards

Sacredstar

 

[Sacredstar]

and I love these quotes

“Do not be discouraged because of this vast army. For the battle is not yours, but God’s.” 2 Chronicles 20:15 (particularly in respect of fundamentalists)

"Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand still and see the salvation of the Lord with you". 2 Chroncles 20.17

Inspiring words if one feels helpless in the face of adversity.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

 

[Ciel]

Two Questions;
1, What do you mean?
God speaks through the silent space beyond mind.
2,How do we know?
First understand the workings of the mind.
But do so with wonder and awe.

 

[WolfgangvonUSA]

Dear Wolfgang

GOD speaks to everyone but not everyone listens.
It is only lack of trust and judgement that stands in the way.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

No mortal can really know that God speaks to everyone.

It is vanity and pride and perhaps even blasphemy to claim direct knowledge of God's mind.

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Wolfgang

If you accept that GOD speaks to people why would you not accept that he speaks to everyone? Why would GOD choose one over another when the love of GOD is for all in equality?

In my domain there are no chosen people all are the children of divine parentage.

One has to experience GOD to know GOD, to know GOD is to love GOD and when you do so you also know the pure intent and will-to-good that is at the base of all creation.

Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder and the test of our integration of this is when we can see all through GOD's eyes of love, and when we do so we see GOD in everyone and all of creation.

From my experience GOD can only be felt in the heart not in the mind.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

 

[Marsh]

So the double edged sword of truth can heal or it can hurt...

To be responsible independent thinkers, which is another reason why he taught in parables. To take responsibility for their own understanding and appreciation....

Once people self realise and truly discover themselves they no longer need a teacher, if the teacher has done their job properly...

Cool. I agree (essentially) on the first and the second points, although I'm having a little trouble with the image of a sword that heals.

In the third place, however, I would like to disagree. This idea assumes that education is a finite process, and while on earth this may be more or less true I don't believe there is an end to God's knowledge. Where others may portray God as unchanging, I believe that he is in fact changing every moment (i.e. growing more and more powerful in knowledge, just as human beings do). Thus I don't think that there will ever be a time when we will achieve self-sufficience.

This is, in my mind, the fault that Lucifer stumbled at, and while I'm in no way equating you in particular with him, I am equating mankind with him insofar as we all share the common trait of pride.

I'm reminded of Jesus' statement to Nathaniel when Nathaniel was so impressed when Jesus shared his knowledge of what Nathaniel was doing when he was called; "Does this impress you? My boy, you ain't seen nothin' yet!" (not a direct quotation

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Marsh

'although I'm having a little trouble with the image of a sword that heals'

Two examples; the scapel that a doctor uses to remove a diseased organ, words of truth can heal when we say I love you.

"I don't believe there is an end to God's knowledge."

I agree with you, I would add there is no end to your own either.

But when I speak in terms of the teacher I speak in terms of on an intermediate in general terms.

"we all share the common trait of pride"

Well pride is a cloak that separates us from GOD so why do people need the cloak of pride? This is the new era of the transparency of Christ Consciousness is it not?

"I'm reminded of Jesus' statement to Nathaniel when Nathaniel was so impressed when Jesus shared his knowledge of what Nathaniel was doing when he was called; "Does this impress you? My boy, you ain't seen nothin' yet!"

Jesus also told the apostles off for being intoxicated and drunk on his energy. I feel that Jesus would say what he felt was right at the time for each individual experience, and it is important to me to be mindful of this. I feel this is important because many people can take all types of scripture across all purposes, but yet sometimes a saying or situation was specific for that moment of the one individual experience. So for me it is about establishing what can apply to everyone in modern times and what was unique in the moment.

Being love

Sacredstar