Peak Experience
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alexa
somewhere in time
What kind of experience ? I'm afraid the question is a little to vague for me.
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Are you referring to Maslow? Feeling in contact with something sacred or holy.... feeling in harmony with the universe. That kinda' thing?
I must admit to liking William James' work regarding religious experiences a bit more. "The Varieties of Religious Experience" is still a top notch book.
An interesting study a few years back identified the following: awareness of the presence of God, awareness of receiving help in answer to prayer, awareness of guiding presence not called God, awareness of sacred presence in nature, awareness of patterning in synchronicity, awareness of the presence of someone who died, awareness of an evil presence, and experiencin that all things are one.
Makes me wonder if a peak experience is the same thing as a mystical experience?
I must admit to liking William James' work regarding religious experiences a bit more. "The Varieties of Religious Experience" is still a top notch book.
An interesting study a few years back identified the following: awareness of the presence of God, awareness of receiving help in answer to prayer, awareness of guiding presence not called God, awareness of sacred presence in nature, awareness of patterning in synchronicity, awareness of the presence of someone who died, awareness of an evil presence, and experiencin that all things are one.
Makes me wonder if a peak experience is the same thing as a mystical experience?
Hi.
I said peak experience in order to remain vague. I wasn't referring to any particular person's work. I see similarities between the mystic experience and other peak experiences which I would define as any particular experience elevated to its greatest height. Some examples:
I'm bipolar. When I am manic, this is a peak experience.
If I go to a concert, it doesn't matter whether it's death metal or pop, ideally there will be a peak experience. One type can happen, I think, in the pit, but I've never gone in one.
In prayer, there is ideally a peak experience.
In lovemaking there is ideally a peak experience, and if it is just physical I wouldn't include it because I am looking for something beyond that. I'm talking about when it goes beyond the sensations of physical gratification.
When reading, there can be a peak experience, or when studying something engaging, or listening to an engaging speaker, or engaging in a good debate.
Playing music, listening to music, painting, making a simple craft.
Dancing.
Shouting. Angrily or otherwise.
I'm not sure if I've conveyed properly what I want to. I have my own thoughts on the way these things are related. I was hoping to hear from some other people first since I'm not sure if anyone else has considered this before.
Dauer
I said peak experience in order to remain vague. I wasn't referring to any particular person's work. I see similarities between the mystic experience and other peak experiences which I would define as any particular experience elevated to its greatest height. Some examples:
I'm bipolar. When I am manic, this is a peak experience.
If I go to a concert, it doesn't matter whether it's death metal or pop, ideally there will be a peak experience. One type can happen, I think, in the pit, but I've never gone in one.
In prayer, there is ideally a peak experience.
In lovemaking there is ideally a peak experience, and if it is just physical I wouldn't include it because I am looking for something beyond that. I'm talking about when it goes beyond the sensations of physical gratification.
When reading, there can be a peak experience, or when studying something engaging, or listening to an engaging speaker, or engaging in a good debate.
Playing music, listening to music, painting, making a simple craft.
Dancing.
Shouting. Angrily or otherwise.
I'm not sure if I've conveyed properly what I want to. I have my own thoughts on the way these things are related. I was hoping to hear from some other people first since I'm not sure if anyone else has considered this before.
Dauer
alexa
somewhere in time
If you want to remain vague, you cannot get a straight answer for your question. A maniac experience is not a peak experiance, in my humble opinion, it" s an extreme one for somebody not perceived as a normal person by the society.dauer said:
ISFP
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for me, peak experience is a sudden feeling of being at home and peaceful with what i believe instead of feeling conflicted or doubtful.
that could be called a mystical experience in that it comes suddenly, descens on me like a sort of grace, and doesn't last very long. but the feeling is usually quite beautiful and intense.
touching someone i love also feels like a peak experience- having my brother put his arm around me, or kissing my mother goodnight. there's a sudden awareness of what we are doing, and how special it is.
that could be called a mystical experience in that it comes suddenly, descens on me like a sort of grace, and doesn't last very long. but the feeling is usually quite beautiful and intense.
touching someone i love also feels like a peak experience- having my brother put his arm around me, or kissing my mother goodnight. there's a sudden awareness of what we are doing, and how special it is.
alexa said:
Think of a mountian. The top of it is a peak. I've heard of psychologists referring to the "peak" of a manic episode. I get manic so I can compare the way that feels to the way other things feel. It is a feeling of extreme euphoria, with rushing thoughts that I tend to percieve as shooting through me as from a muse, akin to the prophetic experience. Physically, I was always very energized. But I can imagine the shamans of many religions, whether they were called that or not, having a similar experience. I'm on medication that works now so I've lost that easy access and gained some peace of mind and stability.
If, for your purposes, it would work better to exclude mania, then do so. It is not a percievable part of your reality. The rest I would imagine are, in some form, a part of it.
Let me make my definition of a "peak experience" clearer. I don't mean to say a peak experience is a mystical experience. I mean to say that a mystical experience is a particular type of peak experience, and that peak experiences can even transcend established morality. It is like a staccato accent is placed on human experience in one place or another, in one way or another, sometimes so sharply that it pierces the skin of human experience and lets the individual gaze beyond it. When that last thing happens, it becomes a clearly mystical experience.
Dauer
It doesn't seem like editing of posts is enabled. I forgot to include compulsed. I felt compulsed to do things. It's like when the spirit of God descends on people biblically and then they behave in a way that is generally uncharacteristic of them and, if this is an active move, they do it with the full awareness that they can do anything. Which is another characteristic of mania.
So you've got somebody with racing thoughts and ideas who believes they can do anything compelled to do something. And all of a sudden this comes on like... like the spirit of God. But perhaps I should start another thread to talk about mental illness and its role in religion. RD Laing wrote a lot about it based on his work with pschyzophrenics and offered a framework for helping them go through their journey and come out on the other end instead of treating it as a disease, likening them to astronauts who would explore the inner world.
Dauer
So you've got somebody with racing thoughts and ideas who believes they can do anything compelled to do something. And all of a sudden this comes on like... like the spirit of God. But perhaps I should start another thread to talk about mental illness and its role in religion. RD Laing wrote a lot about it based on his work with pschyzophrenics and offered a framework for helping them go through their journey and come out on the other end instead of treating it as a disease, likening them to astronauts who would explore the inner world.
Dauer
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Ouch!alexa said:
I hope that I never become a member of your community. Where I live, people come in all shapes and sizes......some have physical diagnosis attached to them and some have mental health labels, but they all qualify as being normal.BTW, Ted Turner has often spoke about some of his greatest accomplishments being birthed when he was in a manic state. He has said that his success was dependent on these moments of increased energy and clarity. He is not alone, since history is filled with artists, musicians, religious leaders, etc., with similar labels that have greatly enriched our society.....and the "normals" have enjoyed the benefit.
alexa
somewhere in time
Thanks, dauer. I can understand better your question now. Sorry, for me the word "manic" is to close to psychose in a negative sense.dauer said:
BluejayWay
More evidence? Thank you!
One form of peak experience can actually be communal.
Musicians and athletes speak of being "in the zone"--a state wherein the individual is no longer self-consciously aware of directing his actions. The musician is played by the music--the basketball player whips a pass to a spot before she knows a teammate will be there to recieve it. An individual performer may reach this state alone, but often the entire group is caught up together, as in some of the ecstatic performances of the bands of Miles Davis and Charles Mingus--or the Brazilian national team!
I've known people who were both musicians and athletes, and they attest that the experience of "the zone" is remarkably similar, no matter which activity it occurs in.
As a very amateur soccer player, I was, with my teammates, lucky enough to have experienced that transcendent state at least once. Everything started clicking at once--we moved perfectly into space, passes were one-touch and on, our game flowed seamlessly--it was as if our individuakity had merged, for those brief minutes, into a group mind.
The individual "zone" may be explained neuroscientificly by constant practice and repetition, but how can a group of individuals sublimate themselves into a sum greater than the parts?
In either case, a lot of dedication and hard work, along with some talent, is a prerequisite for that form of peak experience--it don't come easy.
I think it quite possible for communal religious experience can lead to "the zone"--For a Christian, praying alone is encouraged, but Christ pointed out that where two or three are gathered together in His name, He'd be sure to be there. Meditation for a Buddhist is a very personal experience, but the sangha, the community, I understand to be one of the bedrocks of the Buddha's teachings.
I certainly would not presume to rank either the individual or the collective peak experience as the greater.
I'm not from a tradition that particularly looked for communal transcendent experience, and I'd be interested in hearing from those for whom a church service can be a way for the community of believers to touch the divine together--
Musicians and athletes speak of being "in the zone"--a state wherein the individual is no longer self-consciously aware of directing his actions. The musician is played by the music--the basketball player whips a pass to a spot before she knows a teammate will be there to recieve it. An individual performer may reach this state alone, but often the entire group is caught up together, as in some of the ecstatic performances of the bands of Miles Davis and Charles Mingus--or the Brazilian national team!
I've known people who were both musicians and athletes, and they attest that the experience of "the zone" is remarkably similar, no matter which activity it occurs in.
As a very amateur soccer player, I was, with my teammates, lucky enough to have experienced that transcendent state at least once. Everything started clicking at once--we moved perfectly into space, passes were one-touch and on, our game flowed seamlessly--it was as if our individuakity had merged, for those brief minutes, into a group mind.
The individual "zone" may be explained neuroscientificly by constant practice and repetition, but how can a group of individuals sublimate themselves into a sum greater than the parts?
In either case, a lot of dedication and hard work, along with some talent, is a prerequisite for that form of peak experience--it don't come easy.
I think it quite possible for communal religious experience can lead to "the zone"--For a Christian, praying alone is encouraged, but Christ pointed out that where two or three are gathered together in His name, He'd be sure to be there. Meditation for a Buddhist is a very personal experience, but the sangha, the community, I understand to be one of the bedrocks of the Buddha's teachings.
I certainly would not presume to rank either the individual or the collective peak experience as the greater.
I'm not from a tradition that particularly looked for communal transcendent experience, and I'd be interested in hearing from those for whom a church service can be a way for the community of believers to touch the divine together--