BigJoeNobody
Professional Argument Attractor
Let me start off with saying this is just my opinion as a possible reason the Quran (from my Islamic perspective) and Islam were sent from God in the non continueing Jewish trend. I am by no means a Sheik, biblical or rabbinical scholar, or anyone else of great in depth studies. Just someone who has read the texts available in English. Comments/criticism/additions welcome, but let's keep it civil. This is not a come to my religion recruitment post, just explanation of some commonly argued points amongst abrahamic faiths. Thanks.
This all stemmed from a discussion where it was stated that Organized religion was the problem for not being able to maintain faiths past a certain time. And that once a religion became corrupt over a few centuries, it should be changed (I think the author was reffering to people needing to change the religion, which I disagree with, so this is from the perspective of God changing/reminding the religion).
God first sent prophets as reminders and fortellers. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc. (PBUTA). Moses was given a message to be kept, which came to be known as the Torah. (If I get these books missnamed from a Jewish perspective feel free to correct me). This Torah established a Law. A law that was to be kept by all righteous followers. These were mostly kept as verbal documentation for a few centuries until it was finally written down. The people who maintained the verbal traditions also maintained the rabbinical traditions and each taught many people and in doing so started adding into their teachings some of the answers to issues they came across. Many of the prophets after Moses were sent to remind people of the Law, and the existance of God. Miracles were used to prove their closeness to God and keep them on the correct path as well (ie Jonah (PBUH). These accounts are all part of the Talmud. The Talmud contains lots of information. Most of it is probably true. But the additions that man added are not discernable from the original words of God at points and some of the more spectacular miracles, are now considered myth and/or fabricated stories because many people cannot fathom the events taking place.
Due to this, an undeniable miracle was performed to remind all Jews (and even a few Gentiles along the way). A virgin gave birth. The child reminded those around him of the Law and the reasons for it. He also revealed the path of mercy rather that absolute Law. God sent this prophet as the Messiah, The Anointed One, or the King (depending how it is translated). He was so amazing. The Miracles that he performed turned many deniers into full believers. He preached the Torah, and the new revelation. Then came some Jews who were skeptical of his authority. Many prophets had come before, but none claimed to be the Messiah. So they tried to prove he was not the messiah or a prophet by getting him to make a blasphemous claim that he himself was God, and that he was breaking God's Law. These accounts were recorded by many sources. His apostles went out to teach the message that they had witnessed. They included many of his sayings, and probably many of his teachings of the Word. Many people who heard these from the apostles wrote down their words and people read them and went out and wrote them again. Most of these texts state Jesus was ascended to Heaven. And this has led to many theories of divinity.
Due to this unbridled printing of words, people recorded several things that others didn't. The NT is so scrambled that in the 600 years between Jesus (PBUH) and Mouhammed (PBUH), there were hundreds of scrolls written with the same title, and much common content, but differing from each other. To my knowlege none of the texts ever recovered were identical. So God needed to send a solid "Word". And needed to stop the constant search for the next prophet. And to stop the people who were just sitting there waiting on the return of Jesus as was promised in a few accounts of Revalation and Apocolypse(a book not commonly included in the NT) To avoid discussion on right/wrong in the Niceae Council, let's just say the Bible was decided amongst by Christians somewhere in the years around 300 CE. These books included the Talmud (while excluding the Rabbinical Texts apparently to keep the book to be words of God and Prophets only) and the New Testament.
The Quran came roughly 300 years later after the Bible had been formulated. Mouhammed (PBUH) began receiving revelation from the Angel Gabriel. Not to get into content, we will skip the what, who, and how parts.
The Jews had been looking for the next prophet, and eventually the Messiah. They were looking so hard for him that they denied his prophethood because he didn't bring upon such grandiose miracles all over the world as they expected. They were living in a state where the word of God and the word of Rabbis were written together. The Christians were in a state un perpetual misunderstnding and had already divided into denominations as to what they believed to be true or not. To cure this God sent a solid word. A complete revelation to a son of Abraham who had not been corrupted by the Jewish "Best Race that can't be wrong" attitude that had come to full belief at that time. He did not come to the chosen people to remind them, he was chosen to go upon everyone to reveal to all the truth. The same truth that had been kept amongst the Jews up until Jesus. The Word would not be corrupted by the words of the past and the traditions from the men wh taught it. It was not an addition to be added, but a New Revalation to replace the old. It was written in spurts and memorized both in pieces and in whole by the people around the Prophet. Early on people would gather pieces and write some so they could spread the word. These fragment and pieces of the word were corrupted by the writers. So when it came time to solidify a written document of the Quran, The companions collected all the pieces that had been written they recited the Quran they had memorized from the Prophet and independently certified the new written form. To my knowlege noone disagreed to even a letter. This original Quran was copied 7 times and Ayas were adjusted to the different styles of narations of each of the companions. The number of letters, and words did not change, however some had a different count of Aya (generally considered verses). The original was later destroyed. And a certified copy (by the companions) was made of each of the copies. The first gen copies were destroyed in Baghdad when the Mongols came trampling through. I know at least 3 of the 2nd gen certified copies exist today. They match letter for letter, with only a difference in grouping and recitation style. It would seem that God (Allah by name) has created the religious text that will stand up to the test of time. This can only be tested directly by a generation by comparing recitation from a certified reciter to someone with an unrelated chain. (This has been done).
Also stop the search for the next prophet. Allah says that he has sent the last one, Mouhammed (PBUH). Therefore there could be no more loopholes and workarounds to benefit an individual attempting to use the excuse that the next prophet might make something legal. The only thing left to look forward to is the Messiah's return. This is also commanded in the sayings of the Prophet Mouhammed (PBUH) in Hadith that noone knows the day. And to live each day like tomorrow is not your last (interpretation obvious I hope).
Hopefully this will explain the Islamic perspective (at least my Islamic Perspective) on the why Islam was needed, and not from the Issaic (SP?) (PBUH) line.
Salaam Allahikum
InshAllah this answers many questions and/or incites some dialogue
This all stemmed from a discussion where it was stated that Organized religion was the problem for not being able to maintain faiths past a certain time. And that once a religion became corrupt over a few centuries, it should be changed (I think the author was reffering to people needing to change the religion, which I disagree with, so this is from the perspective of God changing/reminding the religion).
God first sent prophets as reminders and fortellers. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc. (PBUTA). Moses was given a message to be kept, which came to be known as the Torah. (If I get these books missnamed from a Jewish perspective feel free to correct me). This Torah established a Law. A law that was to be kept by all righteous followers. These were mostly kept as verbal documentation for a few centuries until it was finally written down. The people who maintained the verbal traditions also maintained the rabbinical traditions and each taught many people and in doing so started adding into their teachings some of the answers to issues they came across. Many of the prophets after Moses were sent to remind people of the Law, and the existance of God. Miracles were used to prove their closeness to God and keep them on the correct path as well (ie Jonah (PBUH). These accounts are all part of the Talmud. The Talmud contains lots of information. Most of it is probably true. But the additions that man added are not discernable from the original words of God at points and some of the more spectacular miracles, are now considered myth and/or fabricated stories because many people cannot fathom the events taking place.
Due to this, an undeniable miracle was performed to remind all Jews (and even a few Gentiles along the way). A virgin gave birth. The child reminded those around him of the Law and the reasons for it. He also revealed the path of mercy rather that absolute Law. God sent this prophet as the Messiah, The Anointed One, or the King (depending how it is translated). He was so amazing. The Miracles that he performed turned many deniers into full believers. He preached the Torah, and the new revelation. Then came some Jews who were skeptical of his authority. Many prophets had come before, but none claimed to be the Messiah. So they tried to prove he was not the messiah or a prophet by getting him to make a blasphemous claim that he himself was God, and that he was breaking God's Law. These accounts were recorded by many sources. His apostles went out to teach the message that they had witnessed. They included many of his sayings, and probably many of his teachings of the Word. Many people who heard these from the apostles wrote down their words and people read them and went out and wrote them again. Most of these texts state Jesus was ascended to Heaven. And this has led to many theories of divinity.
Due to this unbridled printing of words, people recorded several things that others didn't. The NT is so scrambled that in the 600 years between Jesus (PBUH) and Mouhammed (PBUH), there were hundreds of scrolls written with the same title, and much common content, but differing from each other. To my knowlege none of the texts ever recovered were identical. So God needed to send a solid "Word". And needed to stop the constant search for the next prophet. And to stop the people who were just sitting there waiting on the return of Jesus as was promised in a few accounts of Revalation and Apocolypse(a book not commonly included in the NT) To avoid discussion on right/wrong in the Niceae Council, let's just say the Bible was decided amongst by Christians somewhere in the years around 300 CE. These books included the Talmud (while excluding the Rabbinical Texts apparently to keep the book to be words of God and Prophets only) and the New Testament.
The Quran came roughly 300 years later after the Bible had been formulated. Mouhammed (PBUH) began receiving revelation from the Angel Gabriel. Not to get into content, we will skip the what, who, and how parts.
The Jews had been looking for the next prophet, and eventually the Messiah. They were looking so hard for him that they denied his prophethood because he didn't bring upon such grandiose miracles all over the world as they expected. They were living in a state where the word of God and the word of Rabbis were written together. The Christians were in a state un perpetual misunderstnding and had already divided into denominations as to what they believed to be true or not. To cure this God sent a solid word. A complete revelation to a son of Abraham who had not been corrupted by the Jewish "Best Race that can't be wrong" attitude that had come to full belief at that time. He did not come to the chosen people to remind them, he was chosen to go upon everyone to reveal to all the truth. The same truth that had been kept amongst the Jews up until Jesus. The Word would not be corrupted by the words of the past and the traditions from the men wh taught it. It was not an addition to be added, but a New Revalation to replace the old. It was written in spurts and memorized both in pieces and in whole by the people around the Prophet. Early on people would gather pieces and write some so they could spread the word. These fragment and pieces of the word were corrupted by the writers. So when it came time to solidify a written document of the Quran, The companions collected all the pieces that had been written they recited the Quran they had memorized from the Prophet and independently certified the new written form. To my knowlege noone disagreed to even a letter. This original Quran was copied 7 times and Ayas were adjusted to the different styles of narations of each of the companions. The number of letters, and words did not change, however some had a different count of Aya (generally considered verses). The original was later destroyed. And a certified copy (by the companions) was made of each of the copies. The first gen copies were destroyed in Baghdad when the Mongols came trampling through. I know at least 3 of the 2nd gen certified copies exist today. They match letter for letter, with only a difference in grouping and recitation style. It would seem that God (Allah by name) has created the religious text that will stand up to the test of time. This can only be tested directly by a generation by comparing recitation from a certified reciter to someone with an unrelated chain. (This has been done).
Also stop the search for the next prophet. Allah says that he has sent the last one, Mouhammed (PBUH). Therefore there could be no more loopholes and workarounds to benefit an individual attempting to use the excuse that the next prophet might make something legal. The only thing left to look forward to is the Messiah's return. This is also commanded in the sayings of the Prophet Mouhammed (PBUH) in Hadith that noone knows the day. And to live each day like tomorrow is not your last (interpretation obvious I hope).
Hopefully this will explain the Islamic perspective (at least my Islamic Perspective) on the why Islam was needed, and not from the Issaic (SP?) (PBUH) line.
Salaam Allahikum
InshAllah this answers many questions and/or incites some dialogue