why do we worship the quran more than god?

jamal

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Hi, I'm new here. Just wanted to post my thoughts on some issues. It saddens me to see how many muslims nowadays put far too much faith in the quran, which although *may* be god's word, is still in man's handwriting.

I've been doing some reading up on the net, and I discovered that the teachings in the quran were revealed to the prophet over a period of 23 years. The prophet then communicated these teachings to his followers, of which the more learned ones then put into writing, which is a simplification of how the quran as we know it came about.

I'm not here to dispute the prophet's teachings. However, am I right to say that there is no historical record of the prophet actually mentioning the book itself? Am I also right to assume that the prophet did not verify the written contents of the quran (as a result of either never having seen it or simply because of the fact that he is illiterate, as we muslims are so proud of claiming)? Because the teachings in the quran were revealed over such a long period, and the prophet was old and physically weak towards the end, it is entirely possible that these teachings were only put into writing after the prophet's death. Perhaps even decades after his passing.

And since the angel Gabriel passed these teachings only to the prophet, there can be no way of knowing that the entire quran is not full of mistakes and misinterpretations, in the same way that any student with even the best teacher will still make plenty of mistakes. Yes I am challenging the word of revered Islamic scholars, but only because of my faith in Islam.

However, such a debate is not productive, since we can never know the answer. The moral that I'm trying to impart is that we muslims SHOULD NOT worship the quran, because we only worship the one true God. We should not take whatever teachings in the quran as the final truth, simply because we would then by shutting our ears to any new message that God wishes to impart.

The prophet's teachings are god's invaluable lessons for a civilization long before our time. Who are we to say that God does not have a new message for the people of today? We need to move forward. We do not need to depend on quran, religious councils, imams, mosques, clerics, or scholars to tell us what Islam is about. God has the power to communicate directly to us, if only we are willing to listen! If you think that you are less worthy of god's teachings compared to religious scholars, remember that God Himself saw a poor illiterate peasant fit to pass on His teachings. Perhaps this is why there has been no other Prophet yet - because when the millions of muslims are praying, the communication is one-way, everyone speaks and nobody listens.

Also, God has different roles for all of us to play. Some of us are chosen to be doctors, some scientists, some farmers and some to be fools. We should not let anyone impose upon us his personal view of religion, because God may have a different message for him (we simply are unable to know). Remember that the next time someone (even someone of a respected position) tells you to do something in the name of God, yet deep down in your heart you believe such an act is wrong. Because that small voice inside your heart may very well be His voice.

To conclude: you need not even listen to me. Listen to Him.
 
Well said, Jamal. With a little revision, your message could be directed to many Christians who appear to place their faith in the innerancy of Scripture above their faith in the Christ.There are those who believe that one cannot be a Christian if one does not believe that God created the Earth in seven twenty-four hour days, which I think misses the point.

I've no wish to offer insult to the Quran and Islam, but only to point out that many adherants of other faiths tend to see more significance in the letter of scripture than they do in the teachings themselves.
 
Welcome to the forum Jamal

"is still in man's handwriting"

I agree

"And since the angel Gabriel passed these teachings only to the prophet, there can be no way of knowing that the entire quran is not full of mistakes and misinterpretations, in the same way that any student with even the best teacher will still make plenty of mistakes."

Agreed

"simply because we would then by shutting our ears to any new message that God wishes to impart."

Correct

"God has the power to communicate directly to us, if only we are willing to listen!"

This is the message from GOD to all of US.


"remember that God Himself saw a poor illiterate peasant fit to pass on His teachings."

A scholar told me that this was written as it was deemed the message would be more quickly and easily heard by the people, if the message came from a peasant, but in actual fact he was a successful merchant with 13 wives and he would need to be to support that many! Maybe someone can confirm whether this is true?

"Remember that the next time someone (even someone of a respected position) tells you to do something in the name of God, yet deep down in your heart you believe such an act is wrong. Because that small voice inside your heart may very well be His voice."

Yes the voice of conscience is GOD in my view.

"To conclude: you need not even listen to me. Listen to Him."

Love it!

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
jamal said:
Hi, I'm new here. Just wanted to post my thoughts on some issues. It saddens me to see how many muslims nowadays put far too much faith in the quran, which although *may* be god's word, is still in man's handwriting.
To conclude: you need not even listen to me. Listen to Him.
Salaam to all .
you must now that Allah save his Noble book he said :

15:9 “We have, without doubt, sent down the message; and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption)”.

Thanks to all
 
jamal said:
Hi, I'm new here. Just wanted to post my thoughts on some issues. It saddens me to see how many muslims nowadays put far too much faith in the quran, which although *may* be god's word, is still in man's handwriting.
Salaam to all

If any intelligent person search about the truth he must visit this Site which is guide him to the truth about the right faith .
www.islam-guide.com

thanks to all
 

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it took 23 years for the great creator to write down that book, huh?
it seems like a human work to me ...
 
Friend said:
Salaam to all

If any intelligent person search about the truth he must visit this Site which is guide him to the truth about the right faith .
www.islam-guide.com

thanks to all
THE right faith??? With all due respect, Friend, that sounds a little too preachy to me.

Are you dismissing all other paths as incorrect?
 
PersonaNonGrata said:
it took 23 years for the great creator to write down that book, huh?
it seems like a human work to me ...
Salaam to all
This book is not a poem that Allah made , it is a rules and statements which related to certain issues in All Muslim's conditions life .Quraan is a rules For life system .

and to save Quraan verses in the memory of Moslims ,the process of transmition must be took this long period of time .
 
Dear friend

A beloved who was a catholic and coverted, once told me that you have to read it in Arabic to truly appreciate the poetry therein. I am sure that is true, it does not mean the same to those that cannot speak the language, for some words do not truly translate accurately I am told.

So maybe some scripture is for a specific people at a specific time in history and culture and not for all. Is it true that your prophet said there would be a second coming of Christ and the muslims should follow this man when he comes?

If this is true what happens to the Qu'ran then? Is it superceded ?

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
BluejayWay said:
Well said, Jamal. With a little revision, your message could be directed to many Christians who appear to place their faith in the innerancy of Scripture above their faith in the Christ.There are those who believe that one cannot be a Christian if one does not believe that God created the Earth in seven twenty-four hour days, which I think misses the point.

I've no wish to offer insult to the Quran and Islam, but only to point out that many adherants of other faiths tend to see more significance in the letter of scripture than they do in the teachings themselves.
Hi BluejayWay,

I strongly agree.

Furthermore, I think that scriptural fundamentalism is very dangerous.
People of all religions simply have to get over the fact that their religious scriptures are NOT absolutely divine. Religious scriptures were often transmitted orally from one generation to the next before ever being written down. The actual writing down of the scriptures would be many years or even centuries after the actual events took place and would be written by the religious authorities of the time. Therefore, we need to be careful not to be caught up with the letter of the scripture. Rather, we should focus on the spiritual teaching being imparted by it.
 
Sacredstar said:
Dear friend

A beloved who was a catholic and coverted, once told me that you have to read it in Arabic to truly appreciate the poetry therein. I am sure that is true, it does not mean the same to those that cannot speak the language, for some words do not truly translate accurately I am told.

So maybe some scripture is for a specific people at a specific time in history and culture and not for all. Is it true that your prophet said there would be a second coming of Christ and the muslims should follow this man when he comes?

If this is true what happens to the Qu'ran then? Is it superceded ?

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
Salaam for all

Dear Sacredstar
Yes it is true , but when he was comeing he will call for Islam teaching .
the Prophet of Allah Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) will descend at the end of time and judge among the people with justice, following the Law of our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
He will break the crosses and kill the swine. He will only accept Islam from the people. The People of the Book, the Jews and Christians, will all believe in him before his death, after he descends at the end of time. Allah has stated, "There is none of the People of the book but must believe in him (as only a Messenger of Allah) before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus) will be a witness against them." [an-Nisa, 4:159]
peace upon all
 
Hello BluejayWay

BluejayWay said:
Well said, Jamal. With a little revision, your message could be directed to many Christians who appear to place their faith in the innerancy of Scripture above their faith in the Christ.There are those who believe that one cannot be a Christian if one does not believe that God created the Earth in seven twenty-four hour days, which I think misses the point.

I've no wish to offer insult to the Quran and Islam, but only to point out that many adherants of other faiths tend to see more significance in the letter of scripture than they do in the teachings themselves.
Matthew 10:17-20 For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

2 Peter 1:21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

John 17:17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth

Jeremiah 1:9 Then the Lord put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the Lord said to me: "Behold, I have put My words in your mouth.

2 Samuel 23:2 "The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me, And His word was on my tongue.

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

Mark 13:11 But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.

Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words, Like silver tried in a furnace of earth, Purified seven times.

Psalm 119:89 Forever, O Lord, Your word is settled in heaven.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. 6 Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Some of us cannot help but believe that God wants us to have complete in utter faith in the inerrancy and infalliable word of God. ohh Creation was finished in 6 24-hour days.. the 7th he rested. :)

Faithful Servant

Malachi 3:16 Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another, And the Lord listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him For those who fear the Lord And who meditate on His name.
 
Some of us cannot help but believe that God wants us to have complete in utter faith in the inerrancy and infalliable word of God.
Far be it from be to criticize anyone person's belief, Faithfulservant, and that's not what I'm intending, but I really don't understand why holding to a doctine of strict Biblical (or Quranic) innerancy is necessary for faith. One cannot logically prove a scripture is true by quoting claims from that scripture that it is true.
Your own experience may well prove to you that the Bible's words are literally true--my experience doesn't.
I certainly don't demand a rational proof for belief, either, I would, in the spirit of understanding, be interested in hearing why a literal interpretation of scripture is important to you that doesn't rely on the verses quoted above.
To me, the Word is more important than the words, if you see what I mean.
 
BluejayWay
BluejayWay said:
Far be it from be to criticize anyone person's belief, Faithfulservant, and that's not what I'm intending, but I really don't understand why holding to a doctine of strict Biblical (or Quranic) innerancy is necessary for faith. One cannot logically prove a scripture is true by quoting claims from that scripture that it is true.
Your own experience may well prove to you that the Bible's words are literally true--my experience doesn't.
I certainly don't demand a rational proof for belief, either, I would, in the spirit of understanding, be interested in hearing why a literal interpretation of scripture is important to you that doesn't rely on the verses quoted above.
To me, the Word is more important than the words, if you see what I mean.
Thats the whole point is that the WORD is/are the "words" of God. To me. This is a very common debate "evidentialism and presupposition" If I can doubt that maybe some of its corrupted what would that do to my faith? Would that mean that all of it is corrupt? What can I then count on if I cannot count on that being Gods direct word to me. Do I then listen to people who tell me that Jesus is not God? or that the Holy Spirit is just wind? or the bible is all just a lie and theres no such thing as God.

God gave me an amount of faith which is precious to me. I can hear someones idea and know for myself whether its of God or not and if Im not then sure I can find out for myself by reading the best reference book there is.

Christians every day face persecution.. it might be as severe as getting murdered for it but there is always the slight condescension or sarcasm.. we're are taught to expect it because the world hated Christ first. If you say your a Christian to a room of non-believers theres that look amongst them like "here we go again" and they treat you differently because you believe something that they dont . Ive experienced it my whole life and Ive noticed it on these forums .. it may not be recognizable to the non-believer because its conditioned now.. but its there. And I will be bold in my faith regardless.

Faithful Servant
 
Faithful Servant, thank you very much for your reply. I don't have the time to address a couple of issues right now, but you have furthered my understanding of a point of view that has puzzled me. You've helped me in my toleration of others, and that's no little thing!
 
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