No room at the inn

wil

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Thx Thomas for this...reminder
My favourite are the words of that first Christmas:

"Oh, brilliant! It's late, I'm tired, I'm hungry, and I'm in labour. We've trekked to your crummy little village in the middle of bloody nowhere, and now you tell me you forgot to book a room... "

Now as I understand it, there was no app for this...no air bnb, no motel.com

Matter o fact no motel. Most travelers typically slept under the stars, caravans would set up camp and their tents. Single travelers with money would.stay at inns, that typically had two rooms...one for men and one for women and children...either way you would be packed in, side by side with other travelers who hadn't had a bath or deoderant...quite the place affecting our modern sensibilities...

But a family, traveling ...this would not be a typical expectation, private rooms didn't exist...one would stay with family....

Thoughts? No room at the inn...not surprising at the time...born in a manger, is this a big story?
 
I always wonder why if Jospeh is going home to Bethlehem, why has he not family/relations there he can stay with?

Perhaps they've shut him out, because he's convinced the woman he married has been impregnated by God? :rolleyes:
 
There exists a metaphysical thought that "no room at the inn" is in our mind..

That those folk were not ready for Christ...

Expounds into those whose mind is so full, they are not ready for Christ in their mind.
 
Who's metaphysic is that?

It might well cross-reference with the interpretations of 'upper rooms' in Scripture ...
 
It goes with the thought that the Bible is your biography... That all of the players are thoughts, ideas, emotions battling in your mind.

We have the things we've created, nurtured, murdered, tormented...fought till dawn by the river when we've sent others ahead, slayed our goliaths, denied, judged, played the snake and the fruit, wasted our talents...
 
Really? That is his you see it? I see the bible as teaching.us how to handle the struggles in life. Metaphors which save you the trouble of making.the same mistakes.

Many have our road.to Damascus event, many understand denying thrice...ain't bad to have the guide book... Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.
 
1. That's not psychodrama as I understand it, isn't the key part that the one resolving their issues act the things out themselves, partaking in the drama?

2. What is the objection wil, are psychodramas inherently bad? Or are you saying that Thomas sees the Bible as a psychodrama?
 
I believe Thomas sees my interpretation of the bible making it psychodrama..

That is my guess, based on his short.response...seemingly indicating some sort.of disdain...

But I don't really know.the word...
psy·cho·dra·ma
ˈsīkōˌdrämə/
noun
  1. 1.
    a form of psychotherapy in which patients act out events from their past.
  2. 2.
    a play, movie, or novel in which psychological elements are the main interest.
 
Really? That is his you see it? I see the bible as teaching.us how to handle the struggles in life. Metaphors which save you the trouble of making.the same mistakes.
Yes ... psychodrama ...
 
1. That's not psychodrama as I understand it, isn't the key part that the one resolving their issues act the things out themselves, partaking in the drama?
That might be the more concise psychology definition? I was thinking of it the context of a narrative drama in which the key parts (or archetypes?) are acted out?
 
...seemingly indicating some sort.of disdain...
LOL, no, not really, I was surprised.

Hans urs von Balthasar, on of the most important Catholic theologians of the 20th century, wrote a 16-volume systematic treatment of theology. The first seven volumes collectively The Glory of the Lord comprise a 'theological aesthetics' outlining a comprehensive metaphysic founded on the contemplation of the Platonic triumvirate of the Good, the Beautiful and the True. The next five he grouped as Theo-Drama, the dialogue between God and man, and the remaining three volumes comprise an ontology of the original metaphysic entitled Theo-Logic and focusses on Christ as Logos of the World.

My own theology follows (loosely) on Balthasar's, in that my belief is on 'realised symbol', or to paraphrase Wil's words, 'realised biography', that is that the New Testament is not just analogy, metaphor and parable, but that the realities described in metaphorical language are also realised in the world, thus creating a concrete continuity between the 'physical' and the 'spiritual' without which this continuity remains fundamentally insubstantial, a mental construct, a philosophy or ideology.

With reference to the OP, Balthasar sees the Church as Marian. Mary’s relation to the Church is not merely analogical or archetypal but ontological; in Mary the Church is embodied before being organised in Peter:

"The Church is primarily feminine because her primary, all-encompassing truth is her ontological gratitude, which both receives the gift and passes it on." (TheoDrama, vol III).”

It is though Mary's 'yes' that the Church is founded and given its catholicity. Mary’s 'yes' is perfect, unconditional and thus universal. Therefore Balthasar warned that we must be careful to avoid reducing the meaning of archetype to a metaphorical or psychological understanding. Rather than a sharing of a similar experience, it is the ontological foundation of that order of experience.

Mary is the place of the Word’s indwelling, both bodily and ontologically.

The nativity narrative then becomes, in its physical setting, a manifestation of the archetype.

Joseph 'returns' to his place of origin, but is not welcome. As Wil says, there is no room. The Word is made Incarnate 'outside' the normal sphere of daily life, and not at its head, but at its foot — He is born not as the highest but the lowest. The first to attend the birth are the shepherds from the fields, and here is a primary reference to the Lucan theology of social justice, to Christ's words that the first shall be last, and the last shall be first. Last to come are the Wise Men, the Kings of the World, who elect to keep their knowledge secret ...

In effect the nativity must happen this way, because any other way would be false in the face of the reality of the world. It's not merely that the stable is a viable metaphor or spiritual analogy, but rather that such is the case. The actual events of the nativity are shaped by the reality.

It is Mary’s faith that is the determining form; that faith and acceptance is echoed in the women at the foot of the cross and later at the tomb, and significantly in that 'other Mary's' encounter outside it. As the Godchild is given to the world through the first Mary, the news of the Resurrection is given to Peter by the other. The Petrine ministry of Word and the Sacraments is never an end in itself, it is always subordinate to, and in the service of, the Marian principle. The Petrine principle is given to us by Christ to enable the Church to become in the world what was in the soul, in Mary.

In a very real sense, we are present at that ontological Nativity when we accept Christ.

+++

While Balthasar asserts that the Church’s primary identity and personality is found in Mary, he goes on to say that Christ establishes other relations which are also efficacious and paradigmatic, and it is through the unfolding narrative of human relations that Christ establishes consequent principles which will endure in the Church: in Peter (Office and Sacraments), in Paul (mission and charism), in John (contemplative love) and in James (continuity of old and new covenant).

If Mary constitutes the archetypal subjective feminine holiness of the Church then Peter constitutes the archetypal objective masculine holiness of the Church entrusted to men (Two things of note here: Peter's strength and weaknesses, and Christ's giving his mother to the Beloved Disciple at the Foot of the Cross.)

The Church then as Bride of Christ receives her being and life from the Son in the form of vivifying substance (Eucharist) and the words of pardon (Absolution). Second, the Tradition of the Church enables the Word to remain always visible and accessible to the seeker/believer (and the world).
 
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