LGBTQ Rights and Society

[Thomas]

Why was it kept quiet if considered acceptable, approved of, and normal?

For the same reason that most matters pertaining to sex were kept quiet ... I don't think they were as obsessed with it as the west is today — they didn't have Hollywood etc.,

How was a minority of people opposed to sex between two men able to so actively suppress the majority of men having sex with other men?

Depends what kind of sex you're talking about. Bananabrain, a Hebrew scholar, posited the theory that the prohibitions detailed in the Bible referred to sexual exploitation, and especially the rape of male prisoners and slaves, etc.

A reading of the fall of Sodom and Gomorrah, for example, would suggest it's not the sex God was pissed off with, it was the exploitation of others.

The Greeks and Japanese were practicing pederastry ...

Yes, they were. I'm just warning of the assumptions of looking at history through Victorian blinkers, post-modern blinkers, etc.

Pederasty is practiced in a lot of places, it's common to the species ...

Today, such activities may be considered exploitation and manipulation of vulnerable classes of people by sexual predators, institutionalized by corrupt power structures.

Yep.

Even today, young children are raped by Buddhist monks ...

OK. But whty look so far afield. It's happening closer to home, too.

... or do you think my view on it is a bit too dark?

No, I think's it's judging the past by a modern mindset, that's all. I'm not saying the past was right, or it was OK, but I fail to see why [people make such a big deal of the past and ignore the present.

Why does it emerge among humans to hate with such a passion things like pedophilia, beastiality, homosexuality, and rape?

Fear?

Why is it so evident that the most virulent homophobes are struggling with their own feelings?

Most guys who aren't conflicted about their sexuality aren't conflicted about anyone else's either.

The Samurai, and the Buddhists, back then, and today, were at times seemingly abusing their power in a very open way to oppress portions of the population.

C'mon! So is the American political systemn. Like at your prison service, it's slavery by another name ... but as long as we keep looking back to the past, it enables us to avoid looking at the present.

Well it seems the main issue was to do with authority structures and rank. Two men having sex just seemed like total anarchy, who was the boss?

Are you sure this is not your issue? They had no issue with it, the boundaries were understood.

Also, for the stuff about swords and aggression, thats just stuff people say, and Freudian type stuff which has become popular for people to say in various cultures, men with big weapons compensating as symbols of their genitalia, but its not a scholarly thing...

Quite. It's fake scholarship, or ignorance passing for a valid opinion.

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

This person has set trans rights back years (if not decades) imo: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/b...-spray-attacks/ar-BBUGTro?ocid=spartanntp_edu

*sigh*

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[wil]

Just another criminal.

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Not only a victory for the African-American community, but a victory for the LGBT+ communities: https://start.att.net/player/catego...to_chicago_you_did_more_than_make_histor-cnn2

I hope that she succeeds in her endeavor.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[StevePame]

Not only a victory for the African-American community, but a victory for the LGBT+ communities: https://start.att.net/player/catego...to_chicago_you_did_more_than_make_histor-cnn2

I hope that she succeeds in her endeavor.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

Lots of positive buzz around her here. I worry how long it lasts though. Chicago has a ton of issues and she’s going to have a lot of hurdles to deal with.

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

This is quite relevant to both LGBT+ rights and criminal justice in the United States: https://www.newsweek.com/gay-man-death-row-jurors-thought-he-enjoy-prison-scotus-1392083

Instead of getting life in prison, the jury (allegedly) sentenced him to death because they "allegedly" thought that he would enjoy being in an all-male prison.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[JJ50]

Lesbian and gays should have the same rights as heterosexuals.

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

This is/was sweet imho:

Too bad more parents of LGBT+ people aren't as accepting.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

An update on the Gavin Grimm lawsuit: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/n...-landmark-case/ar-AAAIbRc?ocid=spartanntp_edu

There should be more school systems accommodating transgender students imho. I mean, at one time, "colored" students had to go out of their way to go to the bathroom...

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

This effects athletes along the gender spectrum: https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics..._central&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter

I can understand both sides, but I feel that this decision harms those who don't know that they're "not fully male or female".

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

This year is the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall riot (my local PrideFest is "celebrating" the pioneers of the lgbt+ movement.)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/tex...hobic-church-to-pride-festival-012552486.html

Thumbs up to the school district for using the money from the anti-lgbt+ church for their Pride activities.

Oh, and thumbs down to Pence for telling the different embassies that they are forbidden to fly a Pride flag or show any signs of so solidarity with the host countries' lgbt+ communities (may he find out that all of his grand/children are genderqueer! Ditto his wife!)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pence-defends-decision-to-ban-pride-flags-from-flying-at-u-s-embassies/
Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[OrtaYol]

The problem I have with same sex marriage is, besides consent the arguments used to justify it are applicable to pretty much anything(pedophilia, zoophilia etc. ).

The problem I have with the gay rights movements is that they are not aiming for tolerance, which I think is all anyone has a right to expect from anyone else in these types of matters and instead are trying to force acceptance.

Other than that I think they should be able to seek their happiness unimpeded.

 

[OrtaYol]

a resounding ...YAY! I've lived in many houses, some with has many as four bathrooms, some with only one...never have I had any gender specific bathrooms ... have any of you?

Sharing a bathroom with people you live with, with probably one person using it at a time in most cases and sharing it with strangers is a bit different, no?

I used to help my god brother at his cleaning job where we would enter female toilets and we would leave if any women came in, sometimes they would say "you can stay I don't mind" etc. but I'd still leave. A couple times he brought his daughter to work and she would leave when males entered the male toilets.. most of the guys told her to stay, quite a few of them were almost being insistent. Creepy. If I had a daughter I would not want her exposed to that.

 

[wil]

I think there are creepers wherever we look, but I've been in public bathrooms with women when the ladies line was long and.they'd us the men's room at ballparks or concerts. I've been in unisex public toilets with multiple stalls. I've been working construction in bathrooms where women 'had to go' and insisted it was OK for me to stay. I've been backstage at theater and dance where both sexes changed clothes and rested in various states of disrobed. I've been to numerous nude beaches and events where nudity was not a.thing. and in all those various situations there is the standard number of lgtbq folk as well.

In general the more lax the rules, the less.uptight folks are and the fewer problems I see encountered....this includes children, kids that grow up without sexual tension and prudishness seem.quite well adjusted to me.

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

I think there are creepers wherever we look, but I've been in public bathrooms with women when the ladies line was long and.they'd us the men's room at ballparks or concerts. I've been in unisex public toilets with multiple stalls. I've been working construction in bathrooms where women 'had to go' and insisted it was OK for me to stay. I've been backstage at theater and dance where both sexes changed clothes and rested in various states of disrobed. I've been to numerous nude beaches and events where nudity was not a.thing. and in all those various situations there is the standard number of lgtbq folk as well.

In general the more lax the rules, the less.uptight folks are and the fewer problems I see encountered....this includes children, kids that grow up without sexual tension and prudishness seem.quite well adjusted to me.

I attended the most recent drag show here in Milwaukee, and the venue just opened up all of the venue's "loo"s to everyone. I just abided with the unspoken rules that are in men's "loo"s, and had no problem. Ditto when I helped my DB when he worked maintenance at a(no longer open) restaurant/tavern. Sometimes I had to go into the men's "loo" to clean, and he sometimes had to go in the ladies "loo" for the same reason. Oh, some of the things that we saw that were left behind...

Then, again, there are times when emergency medical personnel that have to go in due to legitimate calls. If it's a choice between going in or someone dying, I'll just put on my virtual blindfold!

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[wil]

When doing construction maintenance and entering a ladies showers/locker rooms, I always knocked loudly, held the door ajar.and announced "Close your eyes, I'm coming in!"

 

[Cino]

The problem I have with the gay rights movements is that they are not aiming for tolerance, which I think is all anyone has a right to expect from anyone else in these types of matters and instead are trying to force acceptance.

Acceptance vs tolerance, that's an interesting distinction.

How would "tolerance without acceptance" look like?

How would "acceptance without tolerance" look like?

What is the status quo?

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

This has several repercussions, some even major repercussions: https://start.att.net/news/read/art...elled_over_support_of_gay_ma-ap/category/news

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[OrtaYol]

Acceptance vs tolerance, that's an interesting distinction.

How would "tolerance without acceptance" look like?

How would "acceptance without tolerance" look like?

What is the status quo?

Tolerance can exist without acceptance but acceptance must include tolerance(you can't accept something you can't tolerate but you can tolerate something you can't/don't accept). I have/had friends with all sorts of flaws, some quite serious. I can tolerate these flaws(or at least flaws to my perception) which means it doesn't exclude them from my friendship but I never accept these flaws as ok, they are just flaws I am willing to look past as I would hope others can look past mine.