Interesting panel discussion on Guru Ethics

Cino

Cino

Big Love! (Atheist mystic)
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Listening to this, thought it would interest this august forum :)

https://batgap.com/panel-discussions-ethics-spiritual-teaching/

From the blurb:

  • Questioning whether higher consciousness and ethical behavior are tightly correlated.
  • The founding of the Association of Professional Spiritual Teachers.
  • The attempt to formulate a code of ethics that might applyuniversally in the contemporary spiritual community and enliven anunderstanding of what may or may not be appropriate, giving students greaterconfidence in their own discernment and discrimination.
  • Ancient traditions held the teacher beyond reproach andstudents surrendered their own will. This may have worked in monastic settingsbut generally does not work today.
  • Preventative support so we’re not busy doing cleanup.
  • Power hierarchies should not be an essential part ofspiritual development and can lead to abuses.
  • Spiritual awakening does not necessarily qualify a person tooffer advice on relationships, finances, etc.
  • Ethical training of some sort is integral to most honoredtraditions.
  • The issue of sexism and patriarchy in spiritualorganizations.
  • Entering the teaching profession prematurely.
  • All too often, when teachers are challenged on theirbehavior, they ignore the challenger or become defensive.
  • How do we offer the possibility for redemption and atonement?
  • Moving away from a culture of competition to one ofcooperation.
  • The importance of humility.
  • The importance of teachers not identifying with their roleand thinking that students’ devotion is about them.
  • South Africa’s “Truth and Reconciliation” as a model.
 
  • The attempt to formulate a code of ethics that might apply universally in the contemporary spiritual community and enliven an understanding of what may or may not be appropriate, giving students greater confidence in their own discernment and discrimination.
Limit spiritual discussion/practice to what the board decides is 'universally acceptable' to give students greater confidence in their own discernment and discrimination? Because the poor coddled little darlings are too innocent and fragile to be capable of making their own judgements?
 
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From what I listened to (~1/2 through), it's more like a professional code of conduct, like you can expect from psychologists or medical doctors.
 
Cino said:
  • Entering the teaching profession prematurely.

  • All too often, when teachers are challenged on their behavior, they ignore the challenger or become defensive.
Click to expand...

... professional code of conduct, like you can expect from psychologists or medical doctors

Oh, well I couldn't get the discussion to play, so I just skimmed the bullet points. Enough for me, lol. Gurus are going to have to get a certified diploma on the office wall before being allowed to 'teach'?
 
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They were discussing things like that, in fact. Apparently, there are some pretty immature people out there in teacher roles.

Other points discussed so far: How to deal with romantic teacher-student relationships; how to deal with teachers who won't face their shadow side because they are narcissistic; how to encourage students to address ethical shortcomings in their teachers...

Good start. I want to see more of this in religious / spiritual circles.
 
Oh well, it's why the Beatles etc, journeyed to the East for truth, to get away from establishment regulations, lol. So, full circle ...
 
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Not losing all your money to a teacher or priest, not getting manipulated or raped - those concerns are valid in any religious/spiritual setting, eastern or western.
 
Well I think student regulations may apply to under 18's, but that a legal adult has a right to his/her own religious/spiritual belief/s and that there are already laws in place against fraud and sexual abuse/rape.
 
And yet, psychotherapeuts have something in place beyond the laws, as do medical doctors.

As do religious institutions like the various Christian churches.

Before we continue, I need to know whether you are addressing the panel discussion or something else?
 
Yes, but those are registered healers and teaching professionals. They are practicing medicine, and teaching students in definite subjects towards definite exam results. Yes, it blurs. But it's not the same as dictating what spiritual ideas people may dessimate or believe. Or to whom they may give their money, as long as they're legally competent to handle their own funds, etc.

The fact some board may think some or other guru/spiritual teacher is a tosser, does not entitle them to refuse legal adults the right to whatever personal spiritual beliefs they wish to entertain, as long as they act within the laws of the land.

There's another agenda at play here: The drive by 21st century academia to suppress/control 'religious' thought. And no, like I said, the panel discussion doesn't play. And I really don't think I'd be able to listen to too much of it. Life's too short.
 
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All right. I agree with you regarding freedom of conscience and belief.

Also: please examine your assumptions about me. This is not the first time you directed something that to me reads like a personal grudge, about positions I do not even hold, at me.

I don't mind disagreeing with you or anyone. But I'd appreciate disagreeing on things I actually said or linked.

If this recording does not play for you, that's unfortunate, but to then take the thread off-topic in such a confrontational way, is not cool with me.

I'm off to sleep now. Have a good one!
 
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Goodnight @Cino. You did open the thread, and you did post the bullet points. None of my comments was directed at you personally. I was addressing the premise of the thread. Imo we have enough thought police already. That's not addressed at you personally.

EDIT: But I have toned it down.
 
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However I do apologise. I think I should withdraw and just become a reader of these forums. Because I tend to take everything nowadays as a secular attempt to mock and devalue spiritual thought in this brave new world.
 
RJM Corbet said:
However I do apologise. I think I should withdraw and just become a reader of these forums. Because I tend to take everything nowadays as a secular attempt to mock and devalue spiritual thought in this brave new world.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your openness, apology appreciated.

Don't fall silent!

FWIW the people on that panel were all spiritual teachers (one is no longer teaching but running an interview show). They were not discussing beliefs but things like how to handle power, sex, and money.

One example: a teacher doing "gazing practice" where student and teacher would stare into each other's eyes for hours. The teacher then felt they wanted to have sex with the student. The student agreed on the condition that the teacher tell their partner and all the other students about it first. I think that's a veritably Solomonian reacion by the student, but I suspect it to be a rare turn of events.

Finally, I know how it is, brother. It is a new challenge every day not to despair at the tide of malicious nonsense swirling around the base of my little rock of sanity. One more reason for you not to fall silent! It is comforting to know we are not alone.

Here are some more links, maybe one of them will work for you:

Youtube:

iTunes podcast
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/podcast-feed/id602578156
 
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Ok, that video does play. It's long but out of respect to you I'll check it out, though I'd usually run a mile, lol.

Do you know this guy? First of 11 videos. He's more my style:
 
Yes, he's wonderful!

And the panel host (the guy with the interview show) did an interview with him!!!


Enjoy, if you want.
 
Sorry @Cino I just can't resist:



Best wishes to everyone for 2019
 
There's two things here:

One, as has been alluded to, is the fact that a viable 'code of conduct' probably already exists in counselling, psychiatric and other similar disciplines. What the above highlights is the fact that so many 'alternative' lifestyle solutions have no such governance or oversight. Self-regulation is a start, but unless one needs a licence to practice, I can't really see how this could be enforced?

What a professional body can do is claim a kind of 'guarantee', in that membership means members have agreed to a COC, so a seeker should look for the 'BatGap approved' badge. The members will of course have to pay BatGap for approval. Yadda-yadda-yadda ...

+++

"BatGap’s intention is to inspire and inform. We are not in a position to endorse any of our guests’ teachings, practices, healings, etc. We encourage you to discriminate carefully and make your own decisions before signing up for any retreats, sessions, or healings."

The above being the case, I cannot see how BatGap is in much of a position to do anything about anything?

+++

"Ordinary people everywhere are undergoing a shift to a more awakened state of consciousness, thus transforming their understanding of themselves and the world... "

Oh dear, LaLa Land :rolleyes: Looking at the list of contributors ... if WASP is White Anglo-Saxon Protestant, is there an equivalent acronym for the BatGap collective. Predominately American, predominately white, predominately affluent and educated, New Agey, Liberal, etc.
 
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Thomas said:
Ordinary people everywhere are undergoing a shift to a more awakened state of consciousness, thus transforming their understanding of themselves and the world... "

Oh dear, LaLa Land :rolleyes: Looking at the list of contributors ...
Click to expand...

Oh no, you don't understand. It's really happening. People really are reaching enlightenment. All the members of the panel have:

https://batgap.com/jac-okeeffe/

https://jac-okeeffe.com

... In 1997, her life changed dramatically when her sixth sense awakened. Quite spontaneously, she was able to see chakras, energy fields and auras. Moreover, she could communicate with animals and with those who have passed away.

A busy practice in healing work developed within a short time, with Jackie offering private sessions and residential retreats ...

" ... Really there is nothing to understand. Being what you really are is happening; that can not be stopped or started. What you are is beyond all of this. Nothing to work out any more perhaps; let the fragrance of what you are arise and dissolve any tendency to imagine you are other than the essence of all that IS ..."

https://batgap.com/craig-holliday/

https://craigholliday.com

... During the last 10 years Craig also studied with Adyashanti who guided him through 4 profound awakenings (head, heart, Hara and Kundalini). Upon request from others, Craig began sharing these nondual teachings in Satsang ...

https://batgap.com/caverly-morgan/

https://www.caverlymorgan.org

... Caverly blends the original spirit of Zen with a modern nondual approach. Her practice began in 1995 and has included eight years of training in a silent Zen monastery. She has been teaching contemplative practice since 2001 ...

(post edited)
 
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