The Lord's Prayer

[muhammad_isa]

This link / ref. might be particularly interesting for those who believe in evolution..
http://www.thenazareneway.com/lords_prayer.htm

It reminds me of so-called "Chinese whispers". It also reminds me of how our picture of reality
can be strongly affected by those who author / interpret / translate Divine Scripture.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Dr. Hardwicke, of England, says: "The so-called 'Lord's Prayer' was learned by the Messiah as the 'Kadish' from the Talmud."
...
The eminent Swiss theologian, Dr. Wetstein, says: "It is a curious fact that the Lord's Prayer may be constructed almost verbatim out of the Talmud. The Sermon on the Mount is derived largely from the teachings of the Essenes, a Jewish sect to which Jesus is believed by many to have belonged."

6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
- Matthew 5 -

 

[muhammad_isa]

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
...
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
- Matthew 5 -

Peace be with you, my friends

 

[Cino]

The Kaddish and the Lord's Prayer originate from the same place and timeperiod. There are indeed a lot of striking parallels, but also striking differences.

Here's one translation of the mourner's Kaddish:

https://sacred-texts.com/jud/spb/spb06.htm

And another version:

https://sacred-texts.com/jud/spb/spb08.htm

There are several other versions, such as the half kaddish, which add verses.

Maybe @RabbiO (once the holidays are over of course) would weigh in on the similarities and differences between these prayers.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

The Lords prayer to me is asking for God to be the focus of our life, that we are asking God to help us become true servants of humanity.

It is Christ teaching us how to pray, as in verse 9 it says “This, then, is how you should pray:"

How to pray starts at verse 5, the passage is about prayer;

Prayer
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

We then have the Lords Prayer and this is a thought about that prayer from a Baha'i point of view.

"I pray that you may grow in Divine fervour, and that the power of unity in the Spirit will augment, so that the prophecies may be fulfilled, and that in this great century of the Light of God all the glad tidings written in the Sacred Books may come to pass. This is the glorious time of which the Lord Jesus Christ spoke when He told us to pray 'Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven'. I hope that this is also your expectation and great desire.

We are united in the one aim and hope that all shall be as one and every heart illumined by the Love of our Divine Father, God!

May all our actions be spiritual, and all our interests and affections be centred in the Kingdom of Glory!" ~ Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 88

Regards Tony

 

[Cino]

Interesting, are there no prayer meetings among the Baha'i? What are your prayer postures, no standing at all?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Interesting, are there no prayer meetings among the Baha'i? What are your prayer postures, no standing at all?

That is a great question.

I see Faith is a life dedicated to prayer, every moment we can think of God, is a bounty of prayer. In this age Baha'u'llah has raised work done in the spirit of service to the level of prayer.

Like many people of many faiths, Baha'i take all opportunities to pray and hold prayer and reflection meetings. Prayer gives us wings of the Spirit.

There is no more congregational prayer allowed (lots to clarify in that statement).

We have One prayer that can be Congregational, which is the prayer for the dead where all willbe standing at the grave site when recited.

At meetings Individuals will choose a prayer to say and then we take turns.

Regards Tony

 

[wil]

Back to the OP, I have always enjoyed the Aramaic.

 

[wil]

Our Father who art in heaven:

O Birther! Father-Mother of the Cosmos, you create all that moves in light.

Hallowed be thy name

Focus your light within us — make it useful: as the rays of a beacon show the way.

Thy kingdom come

Unite our “I can” to yours, so that we walk as kings and queens with every creature.

Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven

Create in me a divine cooperation — from many selves, one voice, one action.

Give us this day our daily bread

Grant what we need each day in bread and insight.

And forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors

Forgive our hidden past, the secret shames, as we consistently forgive what others hide.

And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil

Deceived neither by the outer nor the inner — free us to walk your path with joy.

For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen

 

[RJM]

O Birther! Father-Mother of the Cosmos, you create all that moves in light.

Does this mean a creator?

Focus your light within us — make it useful: as the rays of a beacon show the way.

To whom/what is this request addressed? Am I petitioning my own subconscious?

 

[wil]

To whom/what is this request addressed? Am I petitioning my own subconscious?

Always!

In my understanding prayer changes our perspective.

Our thoughts are prayers and we are always praying. Our thoughts are prayers.
Take charge of what you're saying.
Seek a higher consciousness, estate of peacefulness and know that every thought becomes a prayer.

Remember Jesus in the garden..."take this cup from me" was he talking to his Trinitarian self? His higher.self?

So much of the bible is our internal struggle in our mind. Do this don't do that can't you read the signs.

 

[RJM]

Always!

In my understanding prayer changes our perspective.

Our thoughts are prayers and we are always praying. Our thoughts are prayers.
Take charge of what you're saying.
Seek a higher consciousness, estate of peacefulness and know that every thought becomes a prayer.

Ok. So all the phrases above are actually adressed to my own higher self? To myself, in other words? Or is this a sort of Jungian universal subconscious?

 

[wil]

Idk what Jungian univ....is.

But maybe?

I see G!d as all there is....and we and trees and bugs and planets as individualized expressions of the all. We are the eachness of the allness. We are the continually begotten of the only begotten.

I think there.is some star trek character who they see as a being...as he expresses on the ship...but in his home he is part of a sea of consciousness...

 

[RJM]

I think there.is some star trek character who they see as a being...as he expresses on the ship...but in his home he is part of a sea of consciousness

Geoff Bezos is launching 90 yr old William Shatner Captain Kirk into space next month. How wonderful:

 

[wil]

Abun di bashmayya nethqadash shmak.
Father in Heaven, hallowed be your name.

Tethey malkuthak.
Thy / Your kingdom come.

Newe tzevyanak aykan di bashmayya af ba’ara.
Your will be done on earth as in heaven.

Lakhman di sunkanan yamana hav lan yoma dheyn.
Give us (this day) our daily bread.

Wa-shbuk lan khavine aykana, d’af hanan shbukan l’khayvine.
And forgive us our trespasses/ debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Ulo ellan lanisyana l’heyn atzeyl lan min beesha.
And lead us not into temptation but deliver us /protect us from the evil one.

Amin.

 

[RJM]

Abun di bashmayya nethqadash shmak.
Father in Heaven, hallowed be your name.

Tethey malkuthak.
Thy / Your kingdom come.

Newe tzevyanak aykan di bashmayya af ba’ara.
Your will be done on earth as in heaven.

Lakhman di sunkanan yamana hav lan yoma dheyn.
Give us (this day) our daily bread.

Wa-shbuk lan khavine aykana, d’af hanan shbukan l’khayvine.
And forgive us our trespasses/ debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Ulo ellan lanisyana l’heyn atzeyl lan min beesha.
And lead us not into temptation but deliver us /protect us from the evil one.

Amin.

That's the Aramaic prayer?

 

[RJM]

It's pretty much identical to the Catholic version, imo

 

[wil]

Geoff Bezos is launching 90 yr old William Shatner Captain Kirk into space next month. How wonderful:]

I think it appropriate (despite my lack of enthusiasm for the original series and Shatner) but they did break the mold and help us get to the moon (by creating public support of space exploration)

That's the Aramaic prayer?

It is the Aramaic...followed not by Aramaic translations...but king James.

 

[wil]

It's pretty much identical to the Catholic version, imo

Our Father who is everywhere
Your name is sacred.
Your kingdom is come.
Your will is throughout the earth
even as it is throughout the universe
You give us our needful bread from day to day,
And you forgive us our offenses
even as we forgive our offenders.
and you let us not enter into materialism.
But you separate us from error.
Because yours are the kingdom, the power and the song and praise.
From all ages, throughout all ages.
(Sealed) in faith, trust and truth.

 

[wil]