There are some religious books that say Christ died on the cross and, after his descent into sheol was resurrected in a spiritual body, and after appearing to several of his followers, ascended into heaven.
What's a "spiritual body" ?..after his descent into sheol was resurrected in a spiritual body..
The glorified body of the risen Christ would be an example?What's a "spiritual body" ?
You know this how? By consulting a dictionary?Physical bodies are physical by definition. Something spiritual is not physical,
Just because you do not understand something -- or more likely deliberately choose to misunderstand it -- does not mean it is a lie. It has recently been discussed here, and also in the past on other threads, as you well know. As usual, the fact that you do not like the answer you get, does not entitle you to keep repeating the same robotic mantra, imoIt seems like a contradiction in terms, to me.
it is an illusion .. magic.. . or could I suggest .. a lie?
Regarding the glorified resurrected Christ, Taoist and Kundalini immortality yoga is all about generating a new immortal bodhisattva body that can be manifested or multiplied, and then unmanifested again, by the yogi. It's very ancient. It's not a new concept, that Christ could appear in his 'spiritual' body. Manifesting his wounds to convince Thomas that it was indeed him, or eating a bit of fish to convince the apostles that he was real was done to demonstrate his control over his natural physical form -- it was a demonstration.
Parahansa Yogananda, writes about Babaji, the immortal yogi, manifesting a physical body that is always young. The concept is nothing new, imo
The transmuted and immortal bodhisattva body is a well known concept in eastern faiths.The concept of the immortal spiritual bodhisattva body is the root of alchemy, the transformation of the natural lead into spiritual gold. The difference would be that Christ was always spiritual; Christ did not need to attain that state. As Christ in/as Jesus was a demonstration of God as Man -- Emmanuel God With Us -- Christ's appearance after the resurrection was a demonstration of his power over death, and of the victory of eternal Spirit, imo
But the Quran also accepts a sinless miracle working Jesus of virgin birth, who ascended bodily to heaven. I realise the Ahmadiyya do not accept the ascension. But what is the point of this post, except to try to show the Quran Jesus is simply a mythical being?Here are some Ancient personalities (but nobody came down till now from heavens physically after going up to the heavens, according to the Holy beliefs)
List of some other Ancient Christ-Figures whose characteristics were extraordinarily similar to that of Jesus in Christianity; all of whom were predating him by centuries
Sl. no. 1
Name: Horus in Egypt
Time period: More than 4500 years B.C.E.
Born of a virgin mother, Isis, on 25 December, in a cave or animal – shed, son of God, sacrificed life at Easter time upon the cross, for the atonement of Sinners, raised on the 3rd day from dead, offers his followers the chance to be b orn again through the rite of Baptism. He turned water into wine at a marriage ceremony; rides triumphantly into a town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honor him. He descended to hell, on the 3rd day he was resurrected from the dead and ascended to heaven in glory. Followers await his return as the judge during the last days. His death and resurrection were celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and wine which symbolize his body and blood.
Sl. no. 2
Time period: 1500-1200 years BCE
Born of a virgin, popular in ancient Persia.
Sl. no. 3
Name: Krishna in India
Time period: Around 1200 years B.C.E.
Hindu deity, reincarnated god. Born of virgin mother Devaki. During infancy, his life was threatened by a tyrant king, like infant Jesus’ life was threatened by Herod, king of Judaea. Both of them fled to their safety, during their infancy.
Sl. no. 4
Time period: 700 BCE
Born of a virgin, in Tibet.
Sl. no. 5
Name: Dionysus in Greece
Time period: 7th century B.C.E
Son of a virgin mother, Semele, son of God, born on 25th December, in a cave/animal shed, sacrificed life on the cross for the atonement of sinners, resurrected on the 3rd day from the dead. Offered his followers the chance to be born again through the rite of baptism. He turned water into wine in a marriage ceremony.
Other characteristics of this Greek Christ Dionysus were exactly the same as that of Egyptian Christ Horus. Dionysus had so many other names too, such as Icchos, Bassareus, Bromis, Euios, Sabazius, Zagres, Yhyoneus, Bacchus, Orpheus, etc. Greek sage Pythagoras traveled to Egypt in 673 BCE, stayed there for 22 years, learned mathematics and the mystery religion of Horus-Osiris from temple monks there. He introduced the ‘Egyptian mathematics’ and ‘mystery religion of Horus’ to his fellow Greeks. Later his followers transformed the Egyptian Christ Horus into Greek indigenous deity Dionysus as their own god-man/Christ.
Sl. no. 6
Name: Gautama Buddha
Time period: 600 years B.C.E.
Born of a virgin mother Maya – in an asexual manner, in Nepal.
Sl. no. 7
Assyrian-Babylonian god-man; born of virgin mother Ishtar.
Sl. no. 8
Time period: Around 600 years B.C.E.
Born of a virgin mother, on 25 December, son of God, died upon tree/cross for atonement of sinners, resurrected on the 3 rd day from the dead, ascended to heaven, will revisit the world.
Sl. no. 9
Time period: 200 years B.C.E.
Born of a virgin mother, Nama; in Phrygia, in central Asia Minor, nowadays Turkey.
Sl. no. 10
Another Pagan Roman god, a savior like Adonis or Dionysus, was born of a virgin mother.
Book ref: THE JESUS MYSTERIES, Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy, Harper Collins Publishers, London, UK, 2000, pp. 4-6.
( If I am wrong please correct me. Thanks)
That would just make the Christ unique. Again, what is the point of this post?Here are some Ancient personalities (but nobody came down till now from heavens physically after going up to the heavens, according to the Holy beliefs)
Don't the Gospels contain an account of the prophet Elijah's (brief) return to Earth, witnessed by several of Jesus' disciples, on Mt. Horeb? @badger mentioned the scene recently in a thread, which is why it came to mind.
The classics also have accounts of Katabasis, of someone entering the realm of the dead, and returning. Odysseus, Orpheus, and so on. Not exactly the heavens, but the reversal of direction for the realm where the winged souls go after death did not occur until Plato, I think.
Like I said. In Book 9 of the Odyssey, Odysseus is reported to have visited the realm of the dead, and returned. After his return, he continued his voyage home with his crew and ship, arrived at his Island of Ithaka, was seen by his son and wife and a host of rivals, took back his position, and lived mostly happily ever after, until his peaceful death at sea.Sorry, I requested that which physical body came from heavens till now since this earth made? How saw? What he did? Is it referred to any historical book? When he again died in this world.
I believe No physical body came down from heaven till now.
Lots of folks who follow various sciences might disagree with you, Ijaz.Sorry, I requested that which physical body came from heavens till now since this earth made? How saw? What he did? Is it referred to any historical book? When he again died in this world.
I believe No physical body came down from heaven till now.
Ah....... I read parts of that when at school, about 6 decades ago, our headmaster was crazy about the ancient classics.
I wouldn't know about that but Elijah was a very real prophet, as you know.Elijah did not come as physically in the physical body. Some people are still waiting for him.
Yep. Easy............Please let me know any other physical evidence of coming down the physical body to this earth.
Elijah did not come as physically in the physical body. Some people are still waiting for him.
Please let me know any other physical evidence of coming down the physical body to this earth.
What's a "spiritual body" ?
It seems like a contradiction in terms, to me.
Physical bodies are physical by definition. Something spiritual is not physical, hence it is an illusion .. magic..
. or could I suggest .. a lie?
Exactly........ The acknowledgement of other people's beliefs, religions and faiths, so important if cultures and religions are to embrace one another. During the 70's a Rabbi (Lionel Blue) helped to found a world religions organisation (can't remember it's proper title) where representatives of any religion could come together to discuss in peaceful discussion and closer friendship. I asked him how there was any chance of success in this mission and he answered that if every delegate could just acknowledge every other religion present, and acknowledge its beliefs/creeds...then the whole undertaking would be an outstanding success.That's what you and I both think. It was a holy book of scripture to a lot of people, and it was studied as intensively as any other book of sacred writing. Even though I'm atheist, I don't dismiss other peoples scripture as a "fiction story", at least not on an interfaith board. You're a believer, I assume, with a holy book at stakes? Guess what we don't say about your scripture around here?
I'm not an Aliens-were-here follower, but back in the 60's I was delighted to read von Daniken's 'Was God an Astronaut?' which quoted those brilliant verses describing Elijah's ascension upwards by chariot of fire. Many non religious folks, agnostics, atheists and convenience followers were beginning to take interest in bible verses as possible truths, simply because they were interested in the possibility that aliens had visited earth from other star systems.Yes, there are different religions which disagree on matters such as these. Yes, I've been invited to seders where there was a cup set aside for Elijah in case he showed up. And I've been in churches where the people believe that Peter offered to build a hut for Elija, because he was physically there.
I'm not an Aliens-were-here follower, but back in the 60's I was delighted to read von Daniken's 'Was God an Astronaut?' which quoted those brilliant verses describing Elijah's ascension upwards by chariot of fire. Many non religious folks, agnostics, atheists and convenience followers were beginning to take interest in bible verses as possible truths, simply because they were interested in the possibility that aliens had visited earth from other star systems.
So you met von Daniken as well as your relative did. Very interesting.Yeah, a relative of mine was really into von Däniken. I read a couple of his books as a kid, about Atlantis and submerged ruins, I think.
At one point, in the early 2000, he had a theme park about his work, the "Mystery Park" in Interlaken, central Switzerland. We visited it with said relative, who was delighted to actually meet the man in person.
His enthusiasm and charisma was definitely a thing, but he was more into presenting "what if..." scenarios than going anywhere with them.
Anyway, hope this was interesting.
So you met von Daniken as well as your relative did. Very interesting.
Do you live in Switzerland/Europe?
I think that the 'what if....' approach has to be the only one that can be considered at this time, but since we are a recently developed species within the last, say, 2 million years, and since this universe has been developing over the last 13 billion years then the question 'what if...?' can be mined, trawled and harvested endlessly. I don't watch the various 'Alien' documentaries and series but I wouldn't question the mentalities of those who follow these.