The horror of being Infinite

[Vasu Devan]

Would you really want to be an Infinite Being? You can create anything.....so there are no challenges and actions become meaningless. You know everything.....so there is nothing new to discover. You are all that is.....so there is no separate being to be with.
You are alone, with nothing to do and nothing to learn.

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong but being God/Infinite does not sound so wonderful now. In fact, maybe God intentionally erased his memory and abilities so he could (temporarily) pretend that he was something else? Like the universe we all live in? A place where we, as finite replicas of God, can pretend we have things to learn, create and challenge us?

 

[seattlegal]

How would such a being guard against delusion? (If everything is a product of an all-powerful being's mind?) I would think that creating a sentient being with free will who can in turn create something that is not a product of the all-powerful being's mind might be in order.

 

[Vasu Devan]

How would such a being guard against delusion? (If everything is a product of an all-powerful being's mind?) I would think that creating a sentient being with free will who can in turn create something that is not a product of the all-powerful being's mind might be in order.

It would not know it's godself by default in its finite form. It would be deluding itself on purpose. It would know of a conscious reality solely by the artifacts and actions of its finite existence. But possibly when we die, we become aware of our divine(but boring) nature again, fiddle about for a bit and then decide to manifest as some finite but conscious being in an universe again.
Or rather as all the conscious beings in the present but uncertainly changing universe. That would align with the Oneness and nonduality experiences more and more people have claimed too.

 

[RJM]

@Vashu Devan
This is such a weird thread OP
It starts with an 'Infinite Being'

Could you perhaps begin by drawing borders around what constitutes a 'being'?
Do you mean a living entity? Surely any entity, by it's nature, has to be finite?

 

[Vasu Devan]

@Vashu Devan
This is such a weird thread OP
It starts with an 'Infinite Being'

Could you perhaps begin by drawing borders around what constitutes a 'being'?
Do you mean a living entity? Surely any entity, by its nature by it's nature, has to be finite?

Yes @RJM I mean a living entity. And by 'Infinite' Being I am referring to a Divine entity which would not be expected to be finite.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Would you really want to be an Infinite Being? You can create anything.....so there are no challenges and actions become meaningless. You know everything.....so there is nothing new to discover. You are all that is.....so there is no separate being to be with.
You are alone, with nothing to do and nothing to learn.

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong but being God/Infinite does not sound so wonderful now. In fact, maybe God intentionally erased his memory and abilities so he could (temporarily) pretend that he was something else? Like the universe we all live in? A place where we, as finite replicas of God, can pretend we have things to learn, create and challenge us?

I see that is why we are created, to know of and Love God.

"O SON OF MAN! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty."
— Bahá’u’lláh, The Hidden Words, Arabic no. 3

This one also.

"Having created the world and all that liveth and moveth therein, He, through the direct operation of His unconstrained and sovereign Will, chose to confer upon man the unique distinction and capacity to know Him and to love Him—a capacity that must needs be regarded as the generating impulse and the primary purpose underlying the whole of creation…Upon the inmost reality of each and every created thing He hath shed the light of one of His names, and made it a recipient of the glory of one of His attributes. Upon the reality of man, however, He hath focused the radiance of all of His names and attributes, and made it a mirror of His own Self. Alone of all created things man hath been singled out for so great a favor, so enduring a bounty. — Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, XXVII
Regards Tony

 

[Vasu Devan]

Good points @Tone Bristow-Stagg
I would simply add that when we were created to love God, the goal was truly to love ourselves. Because the Infinite form realized only the finite version could honestly do that.
Please do post more words of Baha'u'llah that you believe speak further on this.

 

[RJM]

Yes @RJM I mean a living entity. And by 'Infinite' Being I am referring to a Divine entity which would not be expected to be finite.

I would say that Godhead contains and surrounds and permeates being. Godhead 'weaves' life and being. Godhead/Spirit surrounds and contains time and space and infinity. Spirit cannot be expressed or thought of as individual being. Referring to 'God' as 'He' is a simplistic verbal expression. Natural terms and analogies are used by seers to try to convey to natural human minds a small part of the mystery of spirit, which is the lasting, infinite reality. IMO

 

[Vasu Devan]

I would say that Godhead contains and surrounds and permeates being. Godhead 'weaves' life and being. Godhead/Spirit surrounds and contains time and space and infinity. Spirit cannot be expressed or thought of as individual being. Referring to 'God' as 'He' is a simplistic verbal expression. Natural terms and analogies are used by seers to try to convey to natural human minds a small part of the mystery of spirit, which is the lasting, infinite reality. IMO

Well yes. What is being is God. This universe. All I suggest is that what we currently consciously perceive as being both as physical and mental may change when we die but are still conscious. Being conscious as All That Is Being may not be the wonderful being that many claim being God will be. Because of the reasons I mentions in my first post, we CAN be that but may prefer a lesser conscious being. All I ask is: Would you really prefer being infinitely conscious instead of finitely conscious?

 

[RJM]

Would you really prefer being infinitely conscious instead of finitely conscious?

Would an infinite consciousness entertain likes or dislikes? Could an infinite consciousness have ego sense of self Vs other?

 

[Vasu Devan]

It would have all properties of your or my consciousness surely? Just not be a slave to them. I am asking more from the POV of "if you discovered you were such a being after death, do think you would want to return to being a human being? Or some other model of finite consciousness?"

 

[RJM]

It's a bit like where Krishna reveals his Godhead to Arjuna, and Arjuna cowers in fear approaching madness. We are not equipped to know so much. Just a touch lasts a long time. In the sense if I was suddenly given infinite knowledge, I would no longer be 'I'?

An analogy: if I woke up tomorrow suddenly given possession of great wealth, would I soon want to go back to the previous simipcity? I think I probably would want to go back.

 

[Cino]

Lurianic Kabalah, if I understand it correctly, may allude to this: In this view, God had to "contract" in order to make space for creation. This didn't lead to a god-free space exactly, but through a catastrophic event called "the shattering of the vessels" some of the divine light ended up in this space left by the contraction, constituting our world with all its complexity of good and evil.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

A place where we, as finite replicas of God, can pretend we have things to learn, create and challenge us?

I believe Gods purpose is connection and relationships. Whats the point of being a king with no subjects. There is love in a family which has no financial gain in life. I saw a couple both begging for money on street with a dog. They sat and hoped for donations. They were together in suffering, It better than being highly successful but doing it alone. Christ did both, He lived poor on earth, didnt even have His own apartment, but His unity was formed in the relationships He had and made. Heaven is good because of who is there not just the surroundings entirely. At least that is what someone who would get saved would think. Love and relationships is an eternal concept.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I believe Gods purpose is connection and relationships. Whats the point of being a king with no subjects. There is love in a family which has no financial gain in life. I saw a couple both begging for money on street with a dog. They sat and hoped for donations. They were together in suffering, It better than being highly successful but doing it alone. Christ did both, He lived poor on earth, didnt even have His own apartment, but His unity was formed in the relationships He had and made. Heaven is good because of who is there not just the surroundings entirely. At least that is what someone who would get saved would think. Love and relationships is an eternal concept.

It would be a lot better for them if they have enough support in life so they did not beg.

Unity of all humanity is indeed a worthy goal. Let's all be the members of one human family, looking out for the food of all.

Regards Tony

 

[Vasu Devan]

I believe God's purpose is connection and relationships. Whats the point of being a king with no subjects. There is love in a family which has no financial gain in life. I saw a couple both begging for money on street with a dog. They sat and hoped for donations. They were together in suffering, It better than being highly successful but doing it alone. Christ did both, He lived poor on earth, didnt even have His own apartment, but His unity was formed in the relationships He had and made. Heaven is good because of who is there not just the surroundings entirely. At least that is what someone who would get saved would think. Love and relationships is an eternal concept.

Yes, I do believe that if an infinite being existed, love would be an integral, maybe even the only part of its nature. And unconditional love at that. Dictionaries define love cyclically as "affection"/"attraction" but, for me, love is best defined by "allowing all that is being to be". Love cannot be destructive so I don't think a true god would punish or even judge what we humans in our culturally defined moralities define as wrong or sinful. Sin and hell were concepts created by man himself; usually to put the fear of God into others so as to control them. My personal belief is that even if you were a murderer, rapist, or pedophile, after death we all return to our Godself because unconditional love does not reject anyone.

 

[Vasu Devan]

It would be a lot better for them if they have enough support in life so they did not beg.

Certainly, but we all know an infinite being like God does not provide that support and neither a finite being like Man.

Unity of all humanity is indeed a worthy goal. Let's all be the members of one human family, looking out for the food of all.

Regards Tony

A noble ideal but not one that I believe we can achieve in an uncertain reality where what the brain perceives as good/bad can happen to anyone at any age. The brain is apt to turn against anything that it sees as bad so Man can turn against others or even himself at a moment's notice.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Certainly, but we all know an infinite being like God does not provide that support..

Do we?
Almighty God does not have to cause money to fall out of the sky .. in fact, if He did, it would cause more harm than good.
Almighty God gives each creature their provision .. such as the birds in the sky .. and also mankind.
If some people hoard all the wealth and do not care about others, is that God's fault?

 

[Vasu Devan]

Do we?
Almighty God does not have to cause money to fall out of the sky .. in fact, if He did, it would cause more harm than good.
Almighty God gives each creature their provision .. such as the birds in the sky .. and also mankind.
If some people hoard all the wealth and do not care about others, is that God's fault?

I don't think a divine being would have any faults by definition. Faults are seen in the mind of the one being faulted, usually. Where I think many humans err is in believing that they are owed special treatment from other lifeforms. Life is not a gift, for many. In fact, for many, it is a curse. Man grasps for release either through the material or immaterial. What works for one, may or may not work for another. I prefer to believe that happiness is not as easily achievable as contentment. Contentment is more plausible as long as we are not greedy for more but the brain, by default, always wants more of what feels good to it.

 

[Thomas]

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong ...

I think you might be anthropomorphising?