The Lake of Fire (Tophet/Gehenna) is the Moment of Conception

[Base12]

Most Christians believe that the Lake of Fire is the 'end of the story' when it comes to the ultimate fate of the Unsaved. Moreover, these poor unfortunate Souls are said to either 'burn for infinity' or they are 'annihilated'.

Neither are true according to the Bible. When all of the evidence is taken into account, what we find is that the Lake of Fire is simply one step, in a series of steps, in an overall process that has to do with the Moment of Conception.

Let us take a look at some of the evidence...

Psalms 139:15 (King James Version)
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

The above verse is describing how you and I were 'curiously wrought' in our Mother's belly, from conception to birth. But look closely. Instead of saying 'womb', 'belly' or something similar, we are said to be made in the 'lowest parts of the Earth'. It is well understood in Christianity that the 'lowest parts of the Earth' is a reference to a place called 'Hell'. Even non-Christians are familiar with this concept. Thus, the verse is teaching that we are born from Hell. How did we get there?

Here is another piece of evidence...

Matthew 23:15 (King James Version)
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

Note that the above verse is Jesus speaking. If we understand the verse to be literal, as we should, then children are literally being born from Hell. This theme is found all throughout the Bible, yet Christians are told not to take these verses literally. In other words, ignore them as they do not fit the Church narrative of 'infinite torments'.

Something interesting about the word 'Hell' in Matthew 12:15 is that the original Greek word is 'Gehenna'...

https://biblehub.com/greek/1067.htm

Definition: Gehenna, a valley west and South of Jerusalem, also a symbolic name for the final place of punishment of the ungodly
Usage: Gehenna, and originally the name of a valley or cavity near Jerusalem, a place underneath the earth, a place of punishment for evil.

Gehenna, Tophet and the Lake of Fire are synonymous with one another. Thus, if we wish to gain a greater understanding of the Lake of Fire, we must study Gehenna and Tophet. We can do this by examining the verses they are used in...

2 Kings 23:10 (King James Version)
"And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."

The Valley of the Children of Hinnom (Gehenna) is where they would sacrifice to a god named Molech. Look closely at the verse. You will see that the children do not stay in the fire and 'burn for infinity'. They pass through. Thus, the Unsaved 'pass through' the Lake of Fire and go to the next step in the process. That next step is Molech. According to the Bible, Molech is synonymous with the Golden Calf of Exodus. The Golden Calf is Hathor, the Mother Goddess of the Egyptians.

Hathor's depiction is a Uterus at the Moment of Conception, disguised as a part cow, part human hybrid...

Hat - Hor = Womb of Horus.

Long story short, the Unsaved pass through the Lake of Fire into the Womb or Moment of Conception.

Is there more evidence of this? Of course. Again, this is found all over the Bible...

Isaiah 30:33 (King James Version)
"For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it."

The word Tophet in the above verse is translated as 'Hearth' in this translation...

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
"For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it."

Why Hearth? It turns out that the word 'Tophet' was a name for the Goddess of the Hearth. Her name was Hestia, sister of Hades...

"Hestia is a goddess of the first Olympian generation. She is the eldest daughter of the Titans Rhea and Cronus, and sister to Demeter, Hades, Hera, Poseidon, and Zeus."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hestia

Note that the word 'Hades' is found at least ten times in the Bible. Thus, it is no surprise that his sister, Hestia, would be found as well.

Where did the word 'Hestia' come from? That name came from the phrase 'Esh-Jah' or 'Fire of YHWH'. This was the 'Everlasting Fire' that was to perpetually burn in the Brazen Altar...

Leviticus 6:13 (King James Version)
"The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out."

The Brazen Altar has many correlations to the Lake of Fire. Thus, Hestia is the Everlasting Fire of the Lake of Fire...

Matthew 25:41 (King James Version)
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

Why is this important? Hestia later became Vesta. Here we see Tophet being linked to Vesta in this old Lexicon...

An Hebrew and English lexicon, without points ... To this work are prefixed an Hebrew and a Chaldie grammar, without points by Parkhurst, John, 1728-1797

So what did Vesta look like?

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few; the most notable of them were tales of miraculous impregnation of a virgin priestess by a phallus appearing in the flames of the sacred hearth — the manifestation of the goddess combined with a male supernatural being."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesta_(mythology)

Yep. Hestia/Vesta/Tophet/Lake of Fire, is the Moment of Conception.

And, in case you have not connected all of the dots, the Lake of Fire is the portal to Reincarnation. Now you know!

 

[Base12]

Here is another reference...

The Works of Thomas Traherne: Inducements to retirednes ; A sober view of Dr Twisses, his considerations ; Seeds of eternity, or, The nature of the soul ; The kingdom of God

 

[Thomas]

Psalms 139:15 (King James Version)
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

OK. Remember first this is a hymn, and as a genre, most poetic in nature and phraseology.

The above verse is describing how you and I were 'curiously wrought' in our Mother's belly, from conception to birth. But look closely. Instead of saying 'womb', 'belly' or something similar, we are said to be made in the 'lowest parts of the Earth'.

Actually it does say just that in verse 13: "For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb."

Above all, look at context. What the psalmist is saying is stated explicitly in the beginning:
v1: "O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me."

and then goes on to say how profound this knowing is:
v2-8: "Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.
Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.
For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.
Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.
Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

Note that the psalmist refers to 'if I make my bed in hell, thou art there' – but that does not tell us that the psalmist sleeps in hell every night, rather it's the use of language.

If further thought is required I suggest one pause for a moment to consider the Ancient World's often profoundly negative view of female sexuality and genitalia, the fear of and prohibitions against a women during her menses, etc.

I daresay one could more reasonably argue that this verse is something akin to saying "I was born of the lowest part of a woman" because of the whole mucky, messy process of childbirth which seems in the mind of many to be a direct consequence of the Fall.

Thus, the verse is teaching that we are born from Hell.

Is that what this Psalm says to you?

What the Psalm speaks of to me is the profound mystery of God and the infinite love of the Creator for the created ...

Here is another piece of evidence...

Matthew 23:15 (King James Version)
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

Note that the above verse is Jesus speaking. If we understand the verse to be literal, as we should, then children are literally being born from Hell.

But surely that misses the point ... indeed it misconstrues what it literally says – That the scribes and Pharisees with their literal focus on the letter of the Law 'compass sea and land (among the Jews of the Diaspora) to make one proselyte; and when he is made, you (scribes and Pharisees) make him the 'child of hell twofold more than yourselves' – It's a well-known aphorism among teachers that they see the worst of themselves in their students.

2 Kings 23:10 (King James Version)
"And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."

The Valley of the Children of Hinnom (Gehenna) is where they would sacrifice to a god named Molech. Look closely at the verse. You will see that the children do not stay in the fire and 'burn for infinity'. They pass through. Thus, the Unsaved 'pass through' the Lake of Fire and go to the next step in the process.

Er ... no ... the children are sacrificed to a pagan deity. That's why, under Josiah's reforms, the site at Topheth was destroyed, to put an end to the practice.

That next step is Molech. According to the Bible, Molech is synonymous with the Golden Calf of Exodus. The Golden Calf is Hathor, the Mother Goddess of the Egyptians.

Where does the Bible say that?

There is no correlation, as far as I can find, between Moloch and the Golden Calf, and the Golden Calf has parallels with the son of Hathor.

Isaiah 30:33 (King James Version)
"For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it."
The word Tophet in the above verse is translated as 'Hearth' in this translation...

Yes, but the place Tophet is derived from the same word, but it's not a place as such in the above citation, the mistake is down to the KJV.

Why Hearth? It turns out that the word 'Tophet' was a name for the Goddess of the Hearth. Her name was Hestia, sister of Hades...

Er, no. Tophet is a Semitic word. Hestia is Greek ... different etymology. There's no connection, the Greeks never called Hestia 'Tophet' nor vice versa.

Note that the word 'Hades' is found at least ten times in the Bible. Thus, it is no surprise that his sister, Hestia, would be found as well.

But is Hestia found in the Bible? No. and 'hades' is found only in the Greek Septuagint, as a translation of Sheol ...

Where did the word 'Hestia' come from? That name came from the phrase 'Esh-Jah' or 'Fire of YHWH'. This was the 'Everlasting Fire' that was to perpetually burn in the Brazen Altar...

Nope. Hestia, meaning "hearth, fireplace, altar" stems from the root *wes, "burn" (ultimately from *h₂wes- "dwell, pass the night, stay").

Really, you're making leaps without foundation.

 

[wil]

Really, you're making leaps without foundation.

I don't actually believe without foundation...

I just don't think I know the sources he is using as foundation yet.

Which fundamentalist Christian denomination do you ascribe?

Which is your goto version of the Bible and is there a set of reference books or interpreters that you utilize?

Back to that valley...and lake of fire. It was the dump outside of town eh? Anyone lived at a town with an old dump? Folks used to just throw the garbage over the cliff or into the ravine..as cities grew...everyone hauled their garbage to the ravine...and as in my life when you thru your garbage over, you noticed the indigent picking thru the trash, one man's treasure...etc.

As the piles grew the truly useless stuff got burnt, incinerated..set fire to reduce the size of the pile. The fires also burned the bodies of the poor that could not afford burial...burning flesh better than rotting flesh.

As moms walked their kids bybthey pointed at the "lake of fire" and the indigent who without skills or work or a place to live were "destined to toil there the rest of their days, and then their bodies would reside there for eternity...ashes to ashes"

I see it as a story to get children to follow their leaders (as apprentices, slaves, or indentured servants) to listen to mom and elders...cause you know what happens if you don't!

We both see more in the words than are contained there...

 

[Thomas]

answered elsewhere ... too much esiegesis, too much unsound assumption

I don't actually believe without foundation...
I just don't think I know the sources he is using as foundation yet.

Well that would strengthen his case.

Which is your goto version of the Bible and is there a set of reference books or interpreters that you utilize?

I tend to check blueletterbible and then refer to the original Hebrew and/or Greek, and chase down that route.

The KJV, the Douai Rheims, and I have reference bibles if I need them.

But the point is, the connections @Base12 is asserting are not necessarily there ...

 

[wil]

Which fundamentalist Christian denomination do you ascribe?

Which is your goto version of the Bible and is there a set of reference books or interpreters that you utilize?

Oops Thomas answered (since I clipped his reply)..but meant to ask @Base12 so we could all look at the same sources.

 

[Base12]

Which fundamentalist Christian denomination do you ascribe?

Which is your goto version of the Bible and is there a set of reference books or interpreters that you utilize?

I am non-denominational. I mainly use the KJV.

From what I am gathering from some of the responses so far is that the verses I quoted are 'not literal', or they are 'figures of speech', or they are 'just poetry', or they are 'insults of the time' etc. As soon as I hear anything like that, I do not even bother with debating. You are basically telling me that those verses are not to be believed. Where is that written in Scripture?

The bottom line is that I believe exactly what the verses teach. If Jesus said, 'Child of Hell' then that is precisely what he meant.

Can I walk into a Church and proclaim that Jesus is not the Son of God because 'Son of God' is not literal and that it is just 'poetry'? If I did, I would be kicked out and declared a heretic. Yet, they can proclaim that 'Son of Gehenna' is not literal and that is perfectly fine? Nope, I do not believe in a 'rules for thee, not for me' mentality. That is pure hypocrisy.

Here is another translation...

Matthew 23:15 (Berean Literal Bible)
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you traverse the sea and the dry land to make one convert, and whenever it may happen, you make him twofold more a son of Gehenna than yourselves."

Again, according to the 'narrative'...

Son of God = Literal
Son of Gehenna = Not Literal, Poetry, Figure of Speech, Insult, Do Not Believe!, Stay Away From This Verse!!!

Give me a break you guys. I am not playing that stupid game.

 

[Base12]

Here are some more "that is not literal because I say so!" verses...

John 17:12
"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition"

'Son of Perdition' means exactly that. A Son born out of the Lake of Fire. It is a reincarnation term.

Satan 'was, is not, and shall ascend'...

Revelation 17:8
"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

The phrase 'was, and is not; and shall ascend' is called reincarnation.

'Mystery of Iniquity' is another term for reincarnation.

Like I always say, the theme of reincarnation is all over the Bible. Christians are told to basically 'look the other way'.

 

[Base12]

I daresay one could more reasonably argue that this verse is something akin to saying "I was born of the lowest part of a woman" because of the whole mucky, messy process of childbirth which seems in the mind of many to be a direct consequence of the Fall.

Where did Jesus descend to in this verse?

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

 

[Base12]

This one makes 99% of Christians completely short circuit. We begin with this verse...

1 Corinthians 15:36
"Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die"

The teaching is clear and concise. Only something that is *physically dead* can be quickened, i.e., resurrected from the dead. No ifs ands or buts about it. The Bible does not contradict itself.

Exhibit A:
1 Peter 3:18
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit"

Jesus died a physical death, then was 'quickened' into a new body.

Exhibit B:
John 5:21
"For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will."

Again, the word 'quicken' means to raise someone from physical death.

And now for the short circuit verse that the 'rules for me' people will never believe...

Ephesians 2:1
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"

What does the word 'dead' mean in the above verse?

Who will be the first to declare "The word 'dead' is not literal!" and contradict the Word of God?

 

[Base12]

For reference...

"...it is well known that the Romans had their goddess Vesta, whom Velleius Paterculus (l) calls the keeper of the perpetual fires; and there were certain virgins, called the "vestal" virgins, whose business it was to take care that the fire never went out; and is by Virgil (m) called the eternal fire: and Vesta itself is thought by some learned men to be the same with "Esh-jah", the fire of Jehovah"

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/leviticus/6-13.htm

Vesta = Esh-Jah, the 'Fire of Jehovah'. Eternal Fire.

Again, what did Vesta look like?

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few; the most notable of them were tales of miraculous impregnation of a virgin priestess by a phallus appearing in the flames of the sacred hearth — the manifestation of the goddess combined with a male supernatural being."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesta_(mythology)

According to the Scholars, Tophet is the Lake of Fire and is called Vesta. Vesta is the Moment of Conception.

These are not my claims. I am simply pointing out what the experts state. You have the links and references. Do not tell me that I am wrong, go tell them that they are wrong. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. Go ahead Hot Shots. Show them who's boss and correct their mistakes. Put your money where your mouth is if you are so sure that "the connections are not necessarily there".

 

[RJM]

Vesta (mythology) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But the question is how to link the ancient Hebrew texts with Greek and Roman myths?

@Base12
Do you believe in continual reincarnation upon this Earth? Or do you believe in some more extensive principle of 'rebirth' into other worlds and states and dimensions -- not necessarily reincarnation back here upon the planet Earth?

 

[RJM]

Gill's exposition (Leviticus 6:13)

Leviticus 6 Gill's Exposition

"Vesta itself is thought by some learned men to be the same with "Esh-jah", the fire of Jehovah: now these were all satanical imitations of the perpetual fire on the altar of God."

Who are these learned men? If not actually written during the time of Moses, Leviticus was written probably during the Jewish exile in Babylon -- anyway unconnected to the Greek and Roman civilizations. Romans incorporated Greek beliefs, but is there any record of Romans incorporating Jewish beliefs into their religion? Particularly using the word 'Jah'?

According to the Scholars, Tophet is the Lake of Fire and is called Vesta.

Can you reference these scholars?

 

[RJM]

Here is another reference...

The Works of Thomas Traherne: Inducements to retirednes ; A sober view of Dr Twisses, his considerations ; Seeds of eternity, or, The nature of the soul ; The kingdom of God

View attachment 3313​

This link doesn't work:



The idea of Roman religion inheriting from Judaism may be interesting, and I'm sure there are people who know. However the concept of an eternal temple flame is not unusual, and there is no reason to connect it with the eternal lake of fire, just because the words are the same imo?

https://archive.org/details/hebrewenglishlex00parkuoft/page/568/mode/2up

View attachment 3312​

But he says the Scythians used the word Tabiti not Vesta? There's no connection with the Jewish term Esh-jah", the fire of Jehovah?

I'm probably being clueless? I'll be quiet now and wait for wiser heads ...

(post edited ...)

 

[Thomas]

From what I am gathering from some of the responses so far is that the verses I quoted are 'not literal', or they are 'figures of speech', or they are 'just poetry', or they are 'insults of the time' etc. As soon as I hear anything like that, I do not even bother with debating. You are basically telling me that those verses are not to be believed. Where is that written in Scripture?

That's not what I'm saying at all, nowhere do I say they're not to be believed.

What I do say is the Bible is composed of a number of books that comprise different genres. There are books of history, of prophecy, of sayings ...

The Book of Psalms are hymnodic, the texts are lyrical and poetic – that is, they make use of figurative speech – to understand any Biblical text, one has to account for genre, context, language.

The over-arching message of Psalm 139 is stated, as I said, in the first verse: "O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me."
The rest of the psalm is a song, a hymn, of that wondrous understanding.

v9: "If I take the wings of the morning ..."
We don't have wings – it's a poetic expression.

v9: "... and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;"
We don't live in the sea. again, figurative.

v13: "For thou hast possessed my reins ... "
'Reins?
The Hebrew word is kilyâ and it means, literally, the kidneys. But figuratively, it means the seat of the emotions, and according to "The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament" also means reins, again a figurative term applied to the person.

v13: "... thou hast covered me in my mother's womb."
Here is where we are formed.

Matthew 23:15 (Berean Literal Bible)
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you traverse the sea and the dry land to make one convert, and whenever it may happen, you make him twofold more a son of Gehenna than yourselves."

Take a break ... a deep breath ... and read what it says again:

"... and whenever it may happen (that the Scribes and Pharisees make a convert) and you make him (that is, the scribes and Pharisees make him) twofold more a son of Gehenna than yourselves (that is, twice the son of hell that you are)."
Before his conversion then, he was not a 'son of hell' at all, was he?

Give me a break you guys. I am not playing that stupid game.

Oooh, careful ... read Matthew 5:25.

 

[wil]

As soon as I hear anything like that, I do not even bother with debating

We have zero evidence of that.

But... I also shy away from getting involved with literalists...similar reasoning.

 

[wil]

Can I walk into a Church and proclaim that Jesus is not the Son of God because 'Son of God' is not literal and that it is just 'poetry'? If I did, I would be kicked out and declared a heretic.

Lol, you have not walked into the right church yet...

 

[moralorel]

Isaiah 26:14-19 They are dead, they will not live; They are deceased, they will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And made all their memory to perish. No conception there. I'll look again.

Ezekiel 18:4 For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.

No conception there either. I'll keep looking.

Malachi 14:3 "Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the Lord Almighty.

Sounds like the wicked will be burned up. I think I might know where.

Matthew 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Doesn't sound like Jesus is talking about any sort of conception either.

Matthew 3:10 "And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
Thrown into the fire for conception? Is the ax a metaphor for conception too?

Matthew 3:12 "His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

There God goes burning up the chaff (sinners). No conception here either.

Psalm 37:20 "But the wicked shall perish; and the enemies of the Lord, like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away."

I could do this all day, but I think it's safe to say that the Lake of Fire is where the wicked will die. No conception. No rebirth. No eternal tormenting. Just going to die.

 

[wil]

Heaven and Hell are attitudes to me, states of mind that we often condemn ourcellves.

I often see two or more people in the exact same situation...some whining and ranting, others plodding thru life, and yet others skipping and singing.

The heaven and hell crowd are often in the woe is me, sky is falling, everyone is against me group, and I don't see the suffering breeds character thoughts helping them, but the opposite.

I have had four bedroom homes with a swimming pool, grape arbor, grass to mow, maintenance and upkeep and bills. I have been healthy and climbed mtns, skied down them flown around the world...also been flat broke hitching around the country sleeping under overpasses. Divorce, foreclosures, repos, now down to renting one room in a house and happy as a pig in poop.

Concerned about dying in fire? Not really. Would not appreciate in this life, but concerned about it in the afterlife? Not in the least...have I been wicked? I ain't no Saint, missed the mark often...they are all on my permanent record...but if judgement day comes...pretty sure I won't be in the back of the pack...I believe I will be in front of many of those who have been claiming holier that thou to me the past six decades.

Life is good....don't should on others.

 

[moralorel]

Heaven and Hell are attitudes to me, states of mind that we often condemn ourcellves.

I often see two or more people in the exact same situation...some whining and ranting, others plodding thru life, and yet others skipping and singing.

The heaven and hell crowd are often in the woe is me, sky is falling, everyone is against me group, and I don't see the suffering breeds character thoughts helping them, but the opposite.

I have had four bedroom homes with a swimming pool, grape arbor, grass to mow, maintenance and upkeep and bills. I have been healthy and climbed mtns, skied down them flown around the world...also been flat broke hitching around the country sleeping under overpasses. Divorce, foreclosures, repos, now down to renting one room in a house and happy as a pig in poop.

Concerned about dying in fire? Not really. Would not appreciate in this life, but concerned about it in the afterlife? Not in the least...have I been wicked? I ain't no Saint, missed the mark often...they are all on my permanent record...but if judgement day comes...pretty sure I won't be in the back of the pack...I believe I will be in front of many of those who have been claiming holier that thou to me the past six decades.

Life is good....don't should on others.

Whenever I encounter a "Christian" who tells someone that they are going to Hell or even feel they can decide who is going to Heaven, I can tell two things about them.
1. They haven't read the Bible cover to cover (still haven't found an exception).
2. They more than likely fit the definition of a wicked person.