David Bentley Hart Discusses the Baha'i Faith

Ahanu

Ahanu

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David Bentley Hart's readers may enjoy this conversation between Hart and Rainn Wilson. It turns out that they are friends. Wilson sent him a copy of Nader Saiedi's Gate of the Heart: Understanding the Writings of the Bab to see what this intellectual giant in modern Christian theology would have to say about it. Hart's comments about Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith are generally positive. There is some discussion about the 70s since both grew up in that time period. If I recall correctly, Hart sees that time period as a more positive one than today's time period. Might be worth rewatching . . .
 
Ahanu said:
If I recall correctly, Hart sees that time period as a more positive one than today's time period. Might be worth rewatching . . .
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Oh, he was describing the optimism within the culture of the 70s. This was reflected in the television shows that captivated his younger days. He felt this sense of optimism isn't present in today's culture. He described the dark tone of his students' papers, for example.
 
It was a fun listen, thx!

Confused that Raine was puzzled at the significance of nine....I thought the names of religions were above each door?

The two daily prayers intrigued me....gonna go back and spend some time with.
 
I got about half way through and couldn't persevere because I found the interviewer SO boring -- mumbling into his beard and cutting the other guy off all the time, taking 30 minutes droning on about the 70's before the interview could even get started and then interrupting all the time, speaking three minutes for every one minute he let the other guy speak, lol

But I'll try to persevere tonight ;)
 
Lol, I saw it sort of like here....it did take a while to get to any point with all the side chats....took a while to get to theology. I paused twice!
 
Yes, two old friends steering well away from anything contentious.
 
wil said:
Confused that Raine was puzzled at the significance of nine....I thought the names of religions were above each door?
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So you imagined each follower of his/her religion found their corresponding door to their faith before entering? That Christians walk through one door, Muslims walk through another, and Sikhs are forbidden entry from lack of the label Sikhism above a door? 🤣

Above each door you'll find one of the following nine inscriptions on the House of Worship in the US:
  1. "The earth is but one country; and mankind its citizens."
  2. "The best beloved of all things in My sight is justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me."
  3. "My love is My stronghold; he that entereth therein is safe and secure."
  4. "Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner."
  5. "Thy heart is My home; sanctify it for My descent."
  6. "I have made death a messenger of joy to thee; wherefore dost thou grieve?"
  7. "Make mention of Me on My earth that in My heaven I may remember thee."
  8. "O rich ones on earth! The poor in your midst are My trust; guard ye My Trust."
  9. "The source of all learning is the knowledge of God, exalted be His glory."
 
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RJM said:
I got about half way through and couldn't persevere because I found the interviewer SO boring -- mumbling into his beard and cutting the other guy off all the time, taking 30 minutes droning on about the 70's before the interview could even get started and then interrupting all the time, speaking three minutes for every one minute he let the other guy speak, lol

But I'll try to persevere tonight ;)
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I found the conversation about the 70s interesting. It segued into the topic of faith and spirituality pretty well since they were talking about 70s films and how spirituality was conveyed in them. Hart mentioned that kung fu films inspired him to pursue theology as a lifelong career. That conversation was more interesting to me than any dry theological discussion about the Trinity, resurrection, and whatnot. 😜
 
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Ahanu said:
Hart mentioned that kung fu films inspired him to pursue theology as a lifelong career.
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I like Caine. I purchased Season One on You Tube a couple of years ago:
Kung Fu

Kung Fu.png
 
Ahanu said:
So you imagined each follower of his/her religion found their corresponding door to their faith before entering? That Christians walk through one door, Muslims walk through another, and Sikhs are forbidden entry from lack of the label Sikhism above a door? 🤣
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No, but I had heard that the 9 points on the star and 9 doors were 9 religions and indicating open to all.
Ahanu said:
Are you talking about Hart's comment on the Lord's Prayer?
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No, Raine quoted two daily bahai prayers...Hart responded something to the effect that anything he had to add would.sound banal
RJM said:
boring -- mumbling into his beard and cutting the other guy off all the time
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the note says he was medicated.

Kung fu show was big on me as a kid, that and the fugitive...fed my hitchhiking soul.
 
wil said:
he note says he was medicated.
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He sure sounds that way. I understand this is the Baha'i forum and the interview will be of special interest to Baha'i people
:)
 
RJM said:
He sure sounds that way. I understand this is the Baha'i forum and the interview will be of special interest to Baha'i people
:)
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Actually, I have not watched many interview videos, I am not, most likely, going to watch this one!

Given the comments, I am even less inclined to do so.

Regards Tony
 
They spend some time talking about Baha'u'llah's title as the father of the poor around the 44 min mark in the conversation. In the Baha'i Writings Hart sees the spirit of Christ that was beginning to vanish by the time of John Chrysostom, who was preaching to the elite in Roman society. He says Christ's teachings about the poor were becoming mere rhetoric. "This is the fate of all religions, not just Christianity," he says. "As much of that practical emphasis begins to recede, the more the religion becomes a part of the pillar of society." He also adds that "the Baha'i Faith has not gotten to that point where the rhetoric is just mere rhetoric." It is still a demand. Hart also laments the state of Christianity on this point elsewhere in "Mammon Ascendant":
"In the Sermon on the Plain’s list of beatitudes and woes, he not only tells the poor that the kingdom belongs to them, but explicitly tells the rich that, having had their pleasures in this world, they shall have none in the world to come. He condemns those who buy up properties and create large estates for themselves. You cannot serve both God and mammon. Do not store up treasure on earth, in earthly vessels, for where your treasure is, there your heart will also be. The apostolic Church in Jerusalem adopted an absolute communism of goods. Paul constantly condemns pleonektia, which is often translated as “excessive greed” or even “thievery,” but which really means no more than an acquisitive desire for more than one needs. He instructs the Corinthian Christians to donate all their profits to the relief of the poor in other church assemblies. James says that God’s elect are the poor of this world; the rich he condemns as oppressors and revilers of the divine name, who should howl in terror at the judgment that is coming upon them, because the rust of their treasure shall eat their flesh like fire on the last day. And on and on. This is so persistent, pervasive, and unqualified a theme of the New Testament that the genius with which Christians down the centuries have succeeded in not seeing it, or in explaining it away, or in pretending that it does not mean what it unquestionably means may be among the greatest marvels of the faith."
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He even throws a jab at Calvin while he is at it: "Calvin even remarks that having some money in the bank is one of the signs of election. But that is offensive nonsense. The real text of the New Testament, uncolored by theological fancy, is utterly perspicuous and relentlessly insistent on this matter. Christ’s concern for the ptōchoi—the abjectly destitute—is more or less exclusive of any other social class." I wish he would write a book solely devoted to John Calvin!🤣

I would like to add I disagree with Hart over giving without question as he suggests around the 46 min mark. The Didache - an early Christian document - sees the need for discernment: "But also now concerning this, it has been said, Let your alms sweat in your hands, until you know to whom you should give." Apparently there were those within the early Christian community that did not have this discernment, because, if I recall correctly, Celsus - an early critic - criticized them Christians for giving to those that are only there to take advantage of the gullible.
 
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wil said:
No, but I had heard that the 9 points on the star and 9 doors were 9 religions and indicating open to all.
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Okay.
wil said:
No, Raine quoted two daily bahai prayers...Hart responded something to the effect that anything he had to add would.sound banal the note says he was medicated.
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I'll have to go back to find it. I do not remember that.
 
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