What Am I?

'Amir Alzzalam

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I would like to pose a philosophical question to everyone.
If I do not believe in external deities, but I do believe in my GodSelf (i.e. Higher Self/Psyche/Soul) as the one and only God that we can ever come to know.

Do you consider me a Theist or an Atheist?
there-is-no-god.jpg
 
If you are calling your "Higher Self/Psyche/Soul" a GodSelf, that would imply that it is, from your perspective, a deity, albeit an internal one. Auto-theism is still a form of theism. Therefore, I would consider you a theist.
 
If you are calling your "Higher Self/Psyche/Soul" a GodSelf, that would imply that it is, from your perspective, a deity, albeit an internal one. Auto-theism is still a form of theism. Therefore, I would consider you a theist.
Loved “although an internal one.” My default theological view is what I call “depth-dynamic.” That old “fountain flowing deep and wide” that emerged in Christian thought, but never seemed to get the traction it deserved, possibly because it required a new way of thinking (that I call “thinking like energy “).

Quantum physicists seem to accept the notion of an “ontological” (real) entangled substrate of reality. Deep inside, or at its core. In David Bohm and Basil Hiley’s book The Undivided Universe, they also surmise a sub quantum level that would explain how “active information” exchanged between tiny particles could occur—a Mind behind/within the matter (and energy-like globs or packets of stuff underneath the matter, or “classical objects”).

Thus, a three layer depth view of overall reality emerges, in line with the (Vedic?) view of Causal, Subtle, and Gross “bodies,” in which Causal is deepest, then subtle, then gross at the surface. Causal body seems to be Mind. So, Mind, Energy, and Matter depth levels of overall reality makes sense to me, “works” for me as a useful map to navigate and manage my “spirituality.”

Given the increasingly interactive and convergent nature of realty substrates, one is hard pressed to call Mind one’s own but equally hard to say it is an Other. It certainly is not not “self.”

I choose to err however (as does the creator of this thread) on the side of self/Self, True Self, Deeper Self, etc., because a disempowering authoritarianism seems to creep into the separate God view.

I trust that egoism evaporates as self approaches the core of being, so no need to separate self from an ultimate reality often called “God.” We are not merely “classical objects,” and the “sin” of separation does not define us, at least not the us/me that the author of this thread is asking questions about.

Thanks for your wonderful insert of the inner dimension. It means the world to me. Rather, the other world, divine, nature within this world!

Obviously, I prefer the supRAnatural perspective over the supernatural one.

As a Christian who grooves on the natural divinity implied by a “son of god,” I suppose I incorporate a bit of Hindu and Buddhist thought into my chosen spiritual vehicle. I have some neat upgrades on my “car!”

Love,
otherbrother (Darrell)
 
We might use this thread as an opportunity to think about the possibility of a difference between “atheism” and “nontheism.”

The prefix “a” means away from or independent of. Not necessarily “non.” Perhaps atheism is closer to the earlier Jewish notion that we should not prematurely unpack the Devine, not claim to know it enough to give it a clear, determinative, “name.” The early faith founders seemed to understand the need to hold God in the more open and impressionistic right brain.
 
I like your way of expressing this
Thanks RJM. Yes, if we can believe the metaphysical model of depth that flows into material “reality”, and can trust the mechanics of it, then we have a means to transcend ego, instead of trying to beat it down (which tends to make it stubbornly fight back and resurface, “meet the new boss-same as the old boss” The Who).

The key is to learn to originate our actions, emotions, thoughts, from a deep zone of overall reality, and to co-operate at the surface (where we live) with that type of origination. Is this the (spiritual) “Way?” I think so.

Since the deepest reality is highly convergent, it brings harmony or “coherence” to the surface. It is a fountain-like dynamic. That old “fountain flowing deep and wide.”

How? I can only experiment and practice until such time I might at least approximate being truly deep as I go about my daily business.

My experiments are mostly during distance running. Perhaps endorphins (and the mental anticipation of the state of mind caused by endorphins) aid in utilizing depth, helps me “float to the core.” Maybe the necessity of strain becomes the mother of the invention (of depth-dynamic being/spirituality)?

Thanks again,
Darrell
 
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During a training cycle for a marathon, three meditative foci organized themselves in my mind. It appeared to be a spiritual discovery. I used the three foci religiously/consistently for a good while after the training cycle , but drifted away from it over time. My book project is inspired by a recent increased appreciation of the usefulness of my past “discovery”. Recently, I have used again those 3 foci while running, and hope to transfer that practice to daily life.
The three foci:

Deep

Being

Flow


Deep and Flow are easier to imagine as being “spiritual.” Being may need more explanation.
Basically, it is to sense the deep-source divinity that survives the physical manifestation of being/beings. To sense the nature divinity in beings and things. In quantum theory terms, it would be to sense the wave characteristics that did not totally collapse while unpacking into a classical object. Some degree of quantum coherence survives the process. And perhaps we have the ability to amplify the coherence, to make the classical object more coherent than it would normally be? Can we put a “glow on” dull objects? So they could be used more creatively and effectively to create integrated processes? To gradually move the world toward wholeness?
The focus on being is best realized during an attitude and state of thankfulness. This is a simpler way to approach Being as a spiritual practice. But the above metaphysical speculations may (for a few egg heads like me!) buttress the simple practice of being thankful.
 
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“natural” divinity, not nature divinity. I haven’t figured out editing after posting here.
 
In traditional Christianity,
my spiritual practice of focusing on Deep may be (going to) the Father, the Ultimate Reality deep within.

Being matches the Son. The Son’s example (and model) of a physical being who lets his spiritual light shine. The Deep (Father) is not separated from the Human’s physical state. “The Father and me are one.” I think Christ was trying to show us our natural divinity. If we learn to “own” and embrace it, we can erase the gaps we have allowed to occur between us and Ultimate Reality deep within.

Flow matches Holy Ghost that flows the Deep into our surface existence at times. Can we learn to be more receptive to, and to tap into, this subtle energy flow? I think so.
 
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“natural” divinity, not nature divinity. I haven’t figured out editing after posting here.
Are you posting from a phone? If you click on 'report' at the bottom, it will give you an edit option. Or else just click on the ‘edit’ button at the bottom, if available, because I don’t know what screen you’re seeing ...
 
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Hi @otherbrother

I was going to comment on your post #12 above that your three 'loci' lend themselves to Trinitarian analogy, but your later post picks this out.

I think Christ was trying to show us our natural divinity.
Christianity would dialogue with you there, but again, it depends upon metaphysical nuance and model. Advaita Vedanta, for example, talks most directly of non-duality, but at the same time preserves the 'transcendent absolute' – Aman is the 'inmost self' – but Shankara goes on to say that this Atman "is to deny that the body or any other empirically knowable factor is the Self and to designate what is left as real, even though it cannot be expressed in words" – it's here, in the inexpressible, 'where all distinction ceases to exist' as Eckhart has it, that Advaita and Apophatic Christianity touch on common ground.

If we learn to “own” and embrace it, we can erase the gaps we have allowed to occur between us and Ultimate Reality deep within.
Again, I can see what you're saying, but another way is to detatch from self and all things that keep us where we are – one could argue that in seeking to 'own it' we want it on our (egoic) terms – but that's not what I think you're saying.

Flow matches Holy Ghost that flows the Deep into our surface existence at times. Can we learn to be more receptive to, and to tap into, this subtle energy flow? I think so.
Oh yes!

There's a correspondence here with your mention of 'prevenient grace' elsewhere. In dogmatic terms it becomes an argument between Augustine (entirely dependent upon grace) and Pelagius (entirely self-determined) ... I'd say neither is absolutely right, nor absolutely wrong. God meets us where we are, so who made the first move?

In Buddhism, there's tariki and jiriki, 'other power' and 'self-power' – and I think on the Path, both are operative, and at times it seems one more than the other ...
 
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He who loses his life, is the one that gains it ...
 
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The prefix “a” means away from or independent of. Not necessarily “non.” Perhaps atheism is closer to the earlier Jewish notion that we should not prematurely unpack the Devine, not claim to know it enough to give it a clear, determinative, “name.” The early faith founders seemed to understand the need to hold God in the more open and impressionistic right brain.
Interesting points – the Jews did have a name, they just regarded it as something sacred and not to be bandied about.

The Power of the Divine Name is something spoken about in many traditions, but that message holds little resonance (pun intended) today.

The point of interest for me is the balance between left and right brain – I tend to follow Iain McGilchrist The Master and His Emissary with the idea that the individual mind cannot process the right brain without the left, but the problem arises when the left dictates the right, which is what I think you're saying – so when we say 'God', we (should) designate not a thing, but something that transcends all categories.

I read an essay somewhere about the idea that the post-enlightenment world has lost the sense of enchantment, of wonder, of mystery – there is a general belief that one day the left brain will discover the Answer to Everything ...

So yes, the 'unpacking' (as we referred to theology with regard to scriptural exegesis) must ensure not to throw the proverbial baby, as it were, not to just end up with a bunch of intellectual and pleasing aphorisms (idols) ... and this is where 'blind faith' is validated when it is truly founded, not blind as in eyes wide shut, but blind in the sense of a sense of what lies beyond the veil.
 
Are you posting from a phone? If you click on 'report' at the bottom, it will give you an edit option. Or else just click on the ‘edit’ button at the bottom, if available, because I don’t know what screen you’re seeing ...
Thanks for the info
 
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