Faith, Peace, and Love

[otherbrother]

I just added these lines to my notebook of possible songs. I think the notion behind it is highly relevant to our peace/contemplative practices/project:

“For the first time in my life
I feel like I belong,
because I finally realized
you don’t have to like my song.

I just bring it as I sing it,
and trust that it’s okay,
accepting and embracing,
not requiring love per se.”

Love, Peace, Faith.
All three important.
Interdependent but also separate.

Peace and Faith fall into the camp of “being.” Can we just “be”? As God created us as a gift?
Peace is the emotion accompanying acceptance, “yes”.

Faith is the attitude that the creation called a self has what it takes to as accomplish whatever’s worth accomplishing (suggesting that a sense of “purpose” is an important element of faith).

Both (three if you include purpose) involve the art of intentionally being, as a verb: “to be.” And it is a different skill set or “art” than “loving”.

The reason people have trouble really loving themselves is because it’s mixing apples and oranges. It’s barking up the wrong tree. It’s the wrong formula for personal success.

The art of love is one of traveling outside oneself. Love is highly nomadic, often leaving one’s own being so far behind that it is forgotten about. In general, women are more prone to loving themselves away.

In general, men are better at ONLY being, forgetting to go abroad. No wonder a strong, even pathological, sense of nationalism often surfaces in a male-dominated society. And/or imperialism, which is not traveling, but conquest instead, anabolic addition to being.

Having said that, the self-absorbed tendencies of maleness DOES bring something valuable to the potluck of becoming fully, wholly, human.

If a person specializes in love, while neglecting being, he or she (more often she) may try to love themselves more. It’s a flawed strategy that bears little fruit. No matter how much the person tries to love themselves, it just doesn’t seem to work.

This is because a person “can’t,” as the joke says, “get there from here” if he/she is trying to go outside self to be self.

While it is true that love has a reciprocal, interdependent, relationship with being, and greatly enhances it, it does so in an indirect, roundabout, way. You can’t simply mash being and love together and end up with a tasty dish.

Men in general are quicker to appreciate the need to intentionally BE.

One the other hand, they are doomed to eventual failure if they don’t also move beyond their masculine default setting in order to open up their self-systems and avoid entropy. The feminine default program of love “saves” men from their pathetic crumbling selves.

Women in general teach them how to harvest the fruits of love.

The goal is for each specialist to become androgynous. The word “transgender” probably should have been used for this integrated development. Cross gender is what the currently used word (transgender) really seems to mean. But it’s only a word. And “androgynous” suffices. The important thing is to understand the dynamics of psychological and spiritual growth.

Faith and peace need to be mastered independently of love. And love needs to be mastered independently of faith and peace.

And then integrated, woven together.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

If I consider how God sends the Messengers, then to me faith is born out of a pure sacraficing Love, not a self based love. Peace is a result of practicing faith, practicing the given Message.

Which seems to reflected in what you offered.

Peace and Faith fall into the camp of “being.” Can we just “be”? As God created us as a gift?
Peace is the emotion accompanying acceptance, “yes”.

Regards Tony

 

[Thomas]

Interesting thoughts touching on many things ... Here I offer some Christian perspectives –

Peace and Faith fall into the camp of “being.” Can we just “be”? As God created us as a gift?

I'd say firstly 'yes', as our "being" is a gratuitous gift.
Second, in light of that gift, what is my vocation, the purpose of our being?

In Christian terms, 'peace', beyond the worldly understanding, takes on a transcendent dimension, such as St Paul's "the peace of God, which surpasseth all understanding" (Philippians 4:7).

Peace in a certain sense is lies at the end of the road that has faith at its start ... at the utmost the peace is the eschatalogical end – be it salvation, deliverance, what have you – but both faith and peace are always present, simply in a manner of degree.

Faith is the attitude that the creation called a self has what it takes to as accomplish whatever’s worth accomplishing (suggesting that a sense of “purpose” is an important element of faith).

Just so ... faith must be in something ... biblically, "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1), and here one could say that the 'evidence' of Faith in God is peace (His indwelling presence), being an 'evidence' even though it surpasses all understanding – it is not a peace of the order of the world.

Both (three if you include purpose) involve the art of intentionally being, as a verb: “to be.” And it is a different skill set or “art” than “loving”.

Recalling our dialogue of actuality & potentiality – then the first 'act' of a being (any order of being) is actually existing, being is the act of itself, as it were? The second act is 'being-in-relation' in the sense that we do not exist in a void, but in a Cosmos, or, if you like, a Quantum whatever ... then I'd say art is its own act of being, and loving defines the correct disposition towards a relation with other beings, with the cosmos at large, with God ... you broach a huge topic, I'm not sure I'm doing it justice...

The art of love is one of traveling outside oneself...

Here Christianity and Buddhism can pass quite close. Buddhism, of course, refutes the notion of a 'self', but really Christianity does too, especially the idea of 'self' that is current in the modern world, which is at some distance from the 'self' of scripture.

If we treat the 'soul' (in the Abrahamic sense) not an object or thing – we are no more embodied souls than ensouled bodies – so much as a dynamic capacity to be open and responsive to God and the world – then the 'self', the aggregated ephemera, is a bit like the froth on the crest of a wave, without any real depth or substance – the reality of the soul is more like that of the Pilgrim, the eternal traveller, who possesses nothing more than the shirt on her/his back, and wants for nothing along the journey.

Love is highly nomadic, often leaving one’s own being so far behind that it is forgotten about.

Meister Eckhart, the Prince of Mystics, spoke of detachment as the virtue above all. Generally the Traditions speak of humility.

This is because a person “can’t,” as the joke says, “get there from here” if he/she is trying to go outside self to be self.

Especially when self-as-such transcends any individual state. We share in it, we do not possess it, nor is it ours to give away.

Faith and peace need to be mastered independently of love. And love needs to be mastered independently of faith and peace.
And then integrated, woven together.

Self needs to be mastered ... in the spiritual sense, faith, peace and love are of God, which brings us back round to gratuitous gift.

 

[EricPH]

Love is sacrificial. The greatest commandments have been described as putting God first, our neighbours next and self last. Not an easy thing to do in this world today.

I am not sure you can have peace without Justice. If you could draw a line today, and list every outstanding injustice in the world, how could all this be put right?

I listened to a documentary on Putin recently. He wants peace on his terms, in other words, he wants to keep everything he has taken by force. Gaza, sounds similar.

The most we can hope for, is some kind of individual peace, love and faith. This is always easier with people who have similar thoughts about us. Being able to forgive is a way of finding personal peace, but I am not sure how Ukraine and Gaza can forgive and move on.

 

[otherbrother]

If I consider how God sends the Messengers, then to me faith is born out of a pure sacraficing Love, not a self based love. Peace is a result of practicing faith, practicing the given Message.

Which seems to reflected in what you offered.



Regards Tony

Yes, I see your point about how peace can come from practicing your faith, being true to what you think is meaningful for you to do and how to be, but maybe that is somewhat conditional and susceptible to a sense of failure. Is it possible to have peace based on the fact that you are okay because you were designed to be here (even if you have trouble figuring out exactly why)? And then feel more free to explore ways of sharing the gift of your unique potential-filled being with others, and feel good about the offering, regardless of the responses to it? To master just being, as a verb, and accept it flaws and all, trusting that something good will likely come from that genuineness and wholehearted living as though YOU choose the same being-ness that your Maker decided upon when you were created/incarnated.
Similar to an athlete remaining focused on playing the game as best he or she can. no matter how important the outcome may seem. To be in each moment, not particularly in the niceness of love, but in the isness of being.

 

[otherbrother]

Just so ... faith must be in something ... biblically, "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1), and here one could say that the 'evidence' of Faith in God is peace (His indwelling presence), being an 'evidence' even though it surpasses all understanding – it is not a peace of the order of the world.

If our existence is like a fountain flowing (which I believe it to be), its base must be from a deeper place than “the world”, and probably a different dimension than the physical realm. So, the energetic fountain metaphor seems consistent with your statement “it is not a peace of the order of the world.”

 

[otherbrother]

Is it possible to have peace based on the fact that you are okay because you were designed to be here (even if you have trouble figuring out exactly why)? And then feel more free to explore ways of sharing the gift of your unique potential-filled being with others, and feel good about the offering, regardless of the responses to it?

Tony,
I brought the fountain metaphor of existence into my response to part of Thomas’s comments. That fountain flowing from a base of being that comes out of an unknown zone that must be “God” or Ultimate Reality since all the regular “real” stuff that we are familiar with flows FROM that base/source. Sometimes called First Cause or (our) Maker.

But the gap-less, flowing quality also means the beyondness is not not ourselves. The convergent ALL is part of us. Or, as Thomas said, indwelling presence of God. And THAT is something we can trust, have faith in. Being based on God. The gratuitous gift that Thomas started and ended his comments with. Accepting/receiving that gift is not love per se.
Although to, out of love, to give that self as a gift to others IS probably the highest act of “faith.” Paying the gift forward. Giving back to life. And, yes, that would/does provide a satisfying feeling that seems peaceful.
And yet, as soon as we love another, we are disturbed about the other’s misfortune. pain, or even THREAT of harm, loss of loved-ones’ wellbeing. It kind of hurts to love. But it’s just too good not to be worth the lack of peace that loving causes (from caring instead of being carefree). Perhaps women worry so much because they love so much. It’s not all that peaceful. I know, because I live with one!

I’m sure we’re in way over our heads here. That’s why I have so many “buts”! And hopefully not just being a know-it-all butt!

Pontificatingly yours,
Darrell (otherbrother)

 

[otherbrother]

Yes, I see your point about how peace can come from practicing your faith, being true to what you think is meaningful for you to do and how to be, but maybe that is somewhat conditional and susceptible to a sense of failure. Is it possible to have peace based on the fact that you are okay because you were designed to be here (even if you have trouble figuring out exactly why)? And then feel more free to explore ways of sharing the gift of your unique potential-filled being with others, and feel good about the offering, regardless of the responses to it? To master just being, as a verb, and accept it flaws and all, trusting that something good will likely come from that genuineness and wholehearted living as though YOU choose the same being-ness that your Maker decided upon when you were created/incarnated.
Similar to an athlete remaining focused on playing the game as best he or she can. no matter how important the outcome may seem. To be in each moment, not particularly in the niceness of love, but in the isness of being.

Right after I posted that whole rest in your own beingness sentiment, I turned on my TV, only to here a news show guest say something to the effect that it’s all about finding your true soul.
Was he speaking to me? To us? And answering my question in the affirmative?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

(even if you have trouble figuring out exactly why)?

Personally I have no issues with that. As a Baha'i we have 3 Obligatory prayers, that we can choose one of to say every day. All those prayers tell me why I am here.

The short Obligatory Prayer
If we choose this one, it is to he said at midday (Can be said between midday and sunset)

The Medium Obligatory Prayer
If we choose this one it is said 3 times a day, morning, noon and evening.

The Long Obligatory Prayer
If we choose this one, it is said once in a day.

Why are we here? From the Sort Obligatory Prayer.

"I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee."

That to me is trying to practice all the virtues and morals given in every age by God. This goal brings Love amd Unity, all else born of man brings decay and death.

It is a lifetime journey trying to become one with the Words that is of God, by subduing one's own desires.

This does not mean we are not to enjoy what the earth can offer, it means that we do not become attached to the material side of our being, it means we try to foster our spiritual capacity in Love, Truthfulness, Trustworthiness, Charity, Acceptance and Service to name a few, to all humanity over preferences of self.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

And then feel more free to explore ways of sharing the gift of your unique potential-filled being with others, and feel good about the offering, regardless of the responses to it? To master just being, as a verb, and accept it flaws and all, trusting that something good will likely come from that genuineness and wholehearted living as though YOU choose the same being-ness that your Maker decided upon when you were created/incarnated.

This is very good advice. The key to obtaining the goal reflected in your suggestion, to me, has also been given to us in the example of Abdul'baha.

We have been told by Baha'u'llah that Abdul-Baha was given as a gift to humanity, as a perfect example to acheive what is reflected in the quote from you. I see It is found in Submission unto God's Counsels. It has to be 100% our choice and we must become true servants, and example of the Word, and not just a giver of words with no fruit.

We are to look at the life of Abdul'baha as an example how to live our lives.

Regards Tony

 

[otherbrother]

This is very good advice. The key to obtaining the goal reflected in your suggestion, to me, has also been given to us in the example of Abdul'baha.

We have been told by Baha'u'llah that Abdul-Baha was given as a gift to humanity, as a perfect example to acheive what is reflected in the quote from you. I see It is found in Submission unto God's Counsels. It has to be 100% our choice and we must become true servants, and example of the Word, and not just a giver of words with no fruit.

We are to look at the life of Abdul'baha as an example how to live our lives.

Regards Tony

Yes, We can fully, wholeheartedly, CHOOSE, not merely comply.
And yes to embracing models and mentors of spiritual growth/actualization.
Regarding the Word, it is up to us to decide/choose if a given message rings true. The subjective sense of truth has to be part of faith process, spiritual discernment. Wisdom gradually develops as a result of such discernment. If the Word is thereby enlivened with soul/spirit resonance, it lives in us, through us.
I think we are on the same page here. Thanks for chiming it.

 

[otherbrother]

This does not mean we are not to enjoy what the earth can offer, it means that we do not become attached to the material side of our being, it means we try to foster our spiritual capacity in Love, Truthfulness, Trustworthiness, Charity, Acceptance and Service to name a few, to all humanity over preferences of self.

Liked that. Yes, enjoyment helps get the “job” done! Better to whistle while we work.
Liked the “few” road markers or criteria you listed about spiritual growth.
But all require a full acceptance of the mission of being, incarnation. As though, as a spirit, we CHOSE this assignment. Not just thrown into it by God. We leaped. We weren’t pushed.

 

[Thomas]

If our existence is like a fountain flowing (which I believe it to be), its base must be from a deeper place than “the world”, and probably a different dimension than the physical realm. So, the energetic fountain metaphor seems consistent with your statement “it is not a peace of the order of the world.”

Yes. The ontological 'depth of being' of all created nature is founded in the Logos.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Liked that. Yes, enjoyment helps get the “job” done! Better to whistle while we work.
Liked the “few” road markers or criteria you listed about spiritual growth.
But all require a full acceptance of the mission of being, incarnation. As though, as a spirit, we CHOSE this assignment. Not just thrown into it by God. We leaped. We weren’t pushed.

Even though I see we have the choice, I also see that it is a gift, not that anyone is worthy of that gift, so it also pure bounty, a bounty we should not be careless of.

An interesting concept is that God sends the Messengers to those that need it most, not because they are the most worthy, but because they have become the most decadent. Thus the Bab and Baha'u'llah gave the Message in Iran, in the middle of Islam. It is also why Abdul'baha took two trips to America, foretold they would become the default peacemakers, but warned them of what damage predudices of race and gross materialism would wreak on their structure of independence.

Regards Tony