Clarifying Christianity 3: A Metacosmic Fall?

[Thomas]

In discussing the opening chapters of the Book of Genesis, the Russian Orthodox theologian Sergius Bulgakov (1871-1944) offers a somewhat startling analysis of why a mythological tale has its place in Scripture:

“A myth, in the positive sense of this concept, is a story, expressed in a language not proper to the empirical domain, about what lies beyond this domain, about what belongs to the meta-empirical domain and meta-history.” (Sergius Bulgakov, The Bride of the Lamb)

By 'meta-history' he means:
An event is described that lies beyond our history, although at its boundary. Being connected with our history, this event inwardly permeates it. But this event cannot be perceived in the chain of empirical events, for it is not there. It took place, but beyond the limits of this world: After the expulsion of our progenitors from Eden, its gates were locked, and an angel with a fiery sword protects this boundary of being that has become transcendent for us. But this event took place precisely in this world, or at least for this world." (Ibid).

Where does this leave the account of the human fall as told in Genesis?

One solution is to locate 'Eden' as a paradisical state immune to the ravages of time, in short immune to death. This state, this paradise, speaks of an intimate relation between Creator and creature. The tree in the midst then transcends the horizontal, temporal order of 'fallen time' – cosmological time, if you will, the trickle of sand through the hourglass, the process of movement/duration – time and space – that define this particular aeon.

Within this paradisical 'space' (for the want of a better term) humanity is created, and tempted. "Eat and you shall become gods, knowing good and evil” – good and evil; day and night, this and that, truth and error, reality and illusion – but they are not 'gods', and having their eyes opened, as it were, there is now way to close them. In eating the forbidden fruit, they have bitten off more than they can chew. There is no way back ... the 'loss of innocence' is the consequence.

A significant advantage of the metacosmic account of the Fall is that it does not conflict with the scientific account of the origin and formation of our present universe.

The Orthodox theologian Olivier Clément:
"Holy fathers, delving into the biblical texts, showed that the Fall represented a cosmic catastrophe, an eclipse of the paradisiacal mode of being and emergence of a new mode of existence in the whole universe ... Geology and paleontology, with all their achievements, stop at the gate of paradise, for it is a different state of existence. Science cannot reach beyond the Fall, because it itself is a part of the fallen state of the world, being inseparable from spatial, temporal and material conditions that arose from the destruction of paradisiacal state."
(Clément as quoted by Alexander V. Khramov, Fitting Evolution into Christian Belief: An Eastern Orthodox Approach” International Journal of Orthodox Theology, 8 (2017))

 

[Thomas]

David Bentley Hart, a spokesperson for the theology of Universal; Reconciliation, said this:
"There’s chronos which, of course, for Platonism, is the moving image of the aeon [which is] the second level. The aeon is the fullness of time in a kind of spiritual dimension or what we would call the angelic age or the angelic aevum. Then there’s the eternity of God beyond all ages. And I think that it’s clear that for, say, Gregory (St Gregory of Nyssa) and many of the church fathers—certainly for Maximus (St Maximus the Confessor)—the fall is something that happens not in time as we know it. The time as we know it is the result of a fall in the spiritual realm of the aeon. That’s how, if there was a fall, that’s where [and] when: there, not before or after, but in a different frame of time altogether—time not as a shadowy succession of momentary reflections of the fullness that can never be fully embodied at any given instant—that’s chronos, the moving image of the aeon, which is the fullness.

So it certainly wouldn’t be in conflict with rigorous science. In terms of scientific fact, the world, the best we can say, is 4.5 billion years old. Human beings evolved from lower primates. That clearly is where we come from in terms of the physical history of natural beings, but our spiritual history lies elsewhere...

... From Maximus, the fall is instantaneous. The moment of creation is when the fall happens. Because of course, sub specie aeternitatis, time is a succession for us, but from the vantage of eternity all things are at one moment. So for Maximus the fall and creation are simultaneous. You know, our spiritual nature at once already rebels even in freely assenting to its own creation. But that’s all speculative. It’s true, but speculative ... But whatever the case, if the language of the fall has any meaning, it’s not about something that happened in [empirical] time. It’s something about how time as we know it came to be."
(DBH, during questions after a lecture in Australia, 2023)

 

[Faithfulservant]

These articles make me feel dumb. Maybe that's a blessing? I feel if I were smarter I might become too big for my britches. I feel like a child believing so easily in things like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy .. or Jesus maybe that's why Jesus said we should have child like faith.. I don't want to be so smart that I try to logic away things like the Garden of Eden the serpent the apple and the trees of knowledge of good and evil and Life. That creation happened in 6 literal days and the earth is not billions of years old. I'm comfortable with how I believe and it doesn't sit well in my spirit to try to reason what science says with what the Bible says.

I believe in a literal Eden that was the state of the earth pre corruption/ sin. I might possibly believe there was a period of time before man which is called the gap theory. Noone is going to know until God tells us so it's not worth the headache of debating it as fact. I also believe in dimensions and we are limited to the dimension we live in but how about all the others.. Eden could be hidden in such a way.

God gave me an imagination and to ponder the mysteries of Him is boundless joy. I know if my imagination is wild His must be off the chain wild. How boring to limit God with some mundane science some old guy theorized up to make sense of something God hasn't revealed to us Himself.

Things that blow me away. Peacocks elephants sloths giraffes butterflies kangaroos Parrots lightening bugs/fireflies constellations flowers rainbows turtles dolphins whales all babies human and animal. I could go on ya know!

 

[Thomas]

These articles make me feel dumb. Maybe that's a blessing?

LOL. Quite probably. Blessed are, as the Beatitude say, and in neither Matthew nor Luke does it say "Blessed are the smartypants"

I feel if I were smarter I might become too big for my britches.

That's a worthy insight.

I feel like a child believing so easily in things like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy .. or Jesus maybe that's why Jesus said we should have child like faith.

I think a tragedy is the loss of the sense of wonder ... I was attracted to a pseudo-hermetic cult in the 70s, and that was precisely because it spoke to that sense of wonder in that generation ... as did the New Age generally. after I got out, and discovered more about just how much a cult it was, I floundered around for a bit, eventually discovering the Fathers of the Church – and then raged about why these 'Wonders of Christianity' were kept hidden from me during my education at a Catholic school ...

I'm comfortable with how I believe and it doesn't sit well in my spirit to try to reason what science says with what the Bible says.

I used to visit my mum, and invariably she'd get me talking about this kind of stuff. I think she was just glad I'd recovered my faith.

"I love listening to you talk," she said once. "but I don't understand all of it. The Eucharist is what matters to me, as long as I have that, I can do without the rest."

My dad believed as you do. His patron saint (and my confirmation name) was Joseph, and he had a special relationship with him. You know that worn out comedy line (don't know if you got it over there, it was everywhere here for a bit): "I ask myself, what would Jesus do?"
Well, I never have. For me, it was always "What would dad do?" that's where my strength comes from.

I believe in a literal Eden that was the state of the earth pre corruption/ sin.

So do I.

I might possibly believe there was a period of time before man which is called the gap theory. Noone is going to know until God tells us so it's not worth the headache of debating it as fact.

Yes.

I also believe in dimensions and we are limited to the dimension we live in but how about all the others.. Eden could be hidden in such a way.

Yes.

God gave me an imagination and to ponder the mysteries of Him is boundless joy. I know if my imagination is wild His must be off the chain wild. How boring to limit God with some mundane science some old guy theorized up to make sense of something God hasn't revealed to us Himself.

Yes, again!

Things that blow me away. Peacocks elephants sloths giraffes butterflies kangaroos Parrots lightening bugs/fireflies constellations flowers rainbows turtles dolphins whales all babies human and animal. I could go on ya know!

Rainbows (– no two people ever see the same 'one'); the night sky. A 'big' sky in daytime (we live in a city so often the horizon is the roofs of houses all around). Photographs of stellar nebula. A photo of somone doing a spacewalk with earth as a backdrop. My daughters 'crowning'. A sense of history. A sense of mystery. A sense of the numinous.

Hearing a physicist say that we are carbon-based life-forms, and that carbon atoms are made in, and spat out from, stars. (First said by Carl Sagan, I think)

You may not believe in magic,
But don't you think it strange,
The amount of matter in our universe,
Has never slightly changed,
That all which makes your body,
Was once part of something more.
And every breath you ever breathe,
Has seen it all before,
There are countless scores of beauty,
In all the things that you despise,
It could once have been a shooting star,
That now makes up your thighs,
And atoms of forgotten life,
Who've long since ceased to roam,
May now have the great honour,
To call your crooked smile their home,
You may not believe in magic,
But I thought that you should know,
The makings of your heart were born,
Fourteen billion years ago,
So next time you feel lonely,
When this world makes you feel small,
Just remember that it's part of you,
And you're part of it all .
(Erin Hanson)

(I especially like verses "It could once have been a shooting star, / That now makes up your thighs," as I have a replacement hip, made of cobalt and titanium)

 

[Faithfulservant]

Oooh I have another good one. Laminin is the glue that holds our cells together. It's in the shape of a cross. I was tempted to post about this on the other thread but I don't think the miracle of that would be appreciated and would be disregarded. It's says so much to scriptures as how we are knit together in our mother's womb or this one

Colossians 1: 16 and 17 “For by Him (Jesus Christ) all things are created, both in the heavens and on the earth, visible and invisible…all things have been created through Him and for Him, and in Him all things hold together.”

 

[wil]

This child is over here blissfully rolling in the leaves of your thought...the fall? Fall? The annual withering of life, the sap flowing back down to its roots..the thoughts and energies of the leaves change their colors as it is drained...or do their true colors emerge, it matters not, I roll in the pile as other thoughts rustle in circles in some man-made corner bolstered by the spirit. Neither high nor low but in our midst.

You feel dumb, mom doesn't understand, I am with you both and also love the words.

I love how the depth of Faithfuls belief compares to Thomas's exploration, I honor both of their life of time and dedication to this point and am blessed to be present for this discussion.

Dare I say we have all grown in thought and understanding....over the many "falls" that have occurred in our lives and the help we have received from each other here at io when we stumble...

 

[wil]

I have come to realize truth means one thing and facts help but metaphor and allegory, mythology and faith are the weave and the weaver that makes a blanket out of the raw material.

One can stick to what was and miss what is.