Rebirth & Resurrection

Thomas

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Extracts from David Armstrong:
Roland, Rebirth, and Resurrection: A Comparative Eschatology of Paramahansa Yogananda and Origen of Alexandria

(Post of first part)

On the one hand, scholars of Early Judaism now take it for granted that all Judaism after the time of Alexander the Great was thoroughly Hellenized. The question in analyzing Jewish individuals, documents, and archaeology after 323 BCE is not whether they were Hellenized, but how much, in what ways, and with how much comfortable permeability of the boundaries of social institutions and cultural participation ... All varieties of Early Judaism are thus forms of Greco-Roman religion: Hellenistic and Imperial species of ethnically specific behavior dealing with ancestral customs and cultural norms for interactions with divinity and the worshiping community.

On the other hand, scholars of Early Christianity now universally recognize that the nascent Jesus Movement of the first century was fully within the cultic, social, and institutional boundaries of what we would identify as “Judaism,” and did not constitute an explicitly separate, wholly distinct religious phenomenon—“Christianity”—for some time afterwards.

The only conclusion that can follow from these premises is thus that to talk about the earliest “Christianity” as a species of Early Judaism and to talk about it from within the framework of Hellenic religion, philosophy, myth, and literary culture are not and cannot be mutually exclusive.

... scholars like M. David Litwa, whose excellent work demonstrates the sheer Hellenism of the Gospels’ presentation of Jesus in the terms of what ancient Greeks and Romans expected from their gods, including their human gods (“demigods” or “heroes”)... Luke’s account of Jesus’ pneumatic conception, for example, while certainly drawing on what he deemed tradition concerning Jesus’ conception and birth and making use of explicitly Jewish imagery, language, and themes (particularly surrounding haaron habrit, the ark of the covenant), no less engages in a theory of the genesis of divine humans that was also advocated by his pagan contemporary Plutarch (Moralia 7173-718b).

Likewise, as Litwa later points out, contra N.T. Wright and pro the growing consensus of scholars who work on ancient theories of resurrection (or what Litwa calls “corporeal immortalization”), Jesus’ restoration to physical life (the Gospels do not leave a corpse in the tomb) is the same preliminary to divine glorification or bodily deification that heroes like Asklepios, Herakles, and Romulus had received.

Again, the point is not anything so crude as to say that the Gospel writers simply “borrowed” something from the pagan imaginary and slapped it onto Jesus; but it is rather to point out that for Early Christian language about Jesus, as a species of Early Jewish ethnoreligious language, itself just part of the broader Greco-Roman cultural web, to have any kind of positive content for the people to whom that language was addressed, then what happened to Jesus had to have had some kind of parallel point of reference in wider religious discourse. Jesus can, and does, for the Gospel writers, surpass all other possible rivals, but figures like St. Justin Martyr had no problem, as Litwa points out, simply admitting that what Christians claim to have happened in, through, to, and for Jesus is “nothing at all new” or out of the ordinary beyond what was ordinarily predicated of the demigods in Greek religion (Justin Martyr, 1 Apol. 21.1-3).

The basic principle here is that the mystery of Christ is unintelligible if it is wholly dissimilar to everything else culturally. If Christ has no parallel in world mythology, philosophy, and religion, then one has only succeeded in making Jesus perfectly inaccessible to all human conceptualization.
 
(Post of second part – my explanatory notes added)

More recently, Roland Hart (the theologian David Bentley Hart's dog) says much the same thing in the gita or canon of suttas that his ward (the human) David Bentley (Hart) encapsulated in Roland in Moonlight. In the conversation that emerges from within Roland’s scholarly studio, Roland asks (rhetorically) of his human disciple:

I mean, is there truly a gulf of difference between Buddhism’s sambhogakaya and St. Paul’s absolutely fleshless soma pneumatikon? Or between the transfigured, radiant body of the risen Christ, or at least the resplendent bodies of the hesychasts, and the radiant flesh of Swami Premananda walking through the marketplace in an ecstasy of love for God’s beauty? And who’s to say Swami Ramalingam didn’t in fact experience full bodily transfiguration and divinization in this life, growing constantly physically more luminous and translucent as his fleshly body changed first into the suddha deha, the pure body, and then into the pranava deha, the body of the primordial OM, and then into the jnana deha, the body of perfect divine grace, or that he didn’t finally vanish away one day in 1874 into pure, immaterial, spiritual corporeality, and didn’t thereafter appear to his disciples in this … resurrected form?

Roland and Hart’s dialogue on Asian religions may be obscure to some, so it is worth describing these references...

+++

Thomas: At this point I realised there was no point cutting and pasting text, as it's so concise it's too hard to reduce ... so I thoroughly recommend reading it in its entirety.

The link again
 
Nevertheless, it's worth a shot:

"... A more recent and more famous Hindu saint in the West would serve as a better explicator of the three bodies doctrine Roland articulates from within that particular fold, namely, Mukunda Lal Ghosh, better known as Paramahansa Yogananda (1893-1952).

"In Chapter 43 of Autobiography of a Yogi, aptly titled “The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar,” Yogananda begins by recounting an “ineffable vision” of Krishna himself, which is one week later followed by the “beatific light” and “rapture” in the sight of “the flesh and blood form of Sri Yukteswar,” his recently deceased teacher.

Yogananda is astounded: “But is it you, Master,” he asks, “the same Lion of God? Are you wearing a body like the one I buried beneath the cruel Puri sands?”

“Yes, my child,” Yukteswar replies, "I am the same. This is a flesh and blood body. Though I see it as ethereal, to your sight it is physical. From cosmic atoms I created an entirely new body, exactly like that cosmic-dream physical body which you laid beneath the dream-sands at Puri in your dream-world. I am in truth resurrected — not on earth but on an astral planet. Its inhabitants are better able than earthly humanity to meet my lofty standards. There you and your exalted loved ones shall someday come to be with me.

Yukteswar goes on to explain at length the postmortem world he has entered upon... Yogananda begins to receive word-pictures as Yukteswar begins to remind him of the scriptural teachings of “the idea, or causal, body; the subtle astral body, seat of man’s mental and emotional natures; and the gross physical body.”

This astral body, Yukteswar says, is made of prana (more or less the Sanskrit equivalent to the Greek pneuma), and he is preparing the beings there to enter the more purely noetic “causal world.” At Yogananda’s request, he describes at length that “[t]here are many astral planets, teeming with astral beings,” an “astral universe, made of various subtle vibrations of light and colour … hundreds of times larger than the material cosmos,” in which “[t]he entire physical creation hangs like a little solid basket under the huge luminous balloon of the astral sphere.”

“[a] master who achieves this final freedom”—like, Yukteswar says, Jesus—”may elect to return to earth as a prophet to bring other human beings back to God, or like myself he may choose to reside in the astral cosmos.” That is, the liberated Self has every ability to manifest in whatever reality it desires; in becoming one with God through realisation of its unity with God, its “personal” or “individual” qualities have not ceased to be vehicles of divine grace.

As Yogananda would go on to argue in his posthumous mammoth commentary on the Gospels, The Second Coming of Christ, it is precisely this that took place in the resurrection of Jesus. Jesus’ complete realisation of his unity with God enabled and undergirded the paschal mystery of his humiliation and exaltation, and specifically his resurrection of his flesh body. “In the resurrection of Jesus,” writes Yogananda, “we have the assurance of our Creator that God-realised devotees, if they wish, can find not only immortality of the soul but also of the body.”

For Yogananda, what Jesus manifested was “the resurrection of the soul into oneness with Spirit—the soul’s ascension from delusory confinement of body consciousness into its native immortality and everlasting freedom,” from which vantage he “infused his Spirit-expanded soul back into his crucified body, immortalising it, and returned to his bereft disciples in physical form.

There were “definite steps” to this process, specifically, Jesus’ liberation of “his soul … from physical, astral, and causal limitations by three distinct efforts,” that he might “reunite it with the omniscience and omnipotence of the Spirit.” So “[w]hen after death Jesus had neutralised the mechanism of the three gunas, and had burnt all karmic seeds resulting from his incarnate cause-effect actions, he ascended from the three bodies straightway into the bosom of God. Then he had power even as God has. From that supreme state, Jesus put on his body again or cast it off at will.”


(Note: This could explain the curious exchange between Jesus and Mary Magdalene in John 20:17 "Do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father" and the Tradition on the 'harrowing of hell'.)

As this sort of bodily manifestation is simply a property of such infinite ascent, “Jesus after crucifixion could appear among his disciples for forty days, materialising and dematerialising his form before their eyes.” So “the resurrected Jesus — having ascended from the confinement of his physical, astral, and causal bodies into the Infinite-bodied Cosmic Consciousness — manifested his Jesus form not apart from Spirit but as the Infinite who has become Jesus, all individualised souls, and all manifestation.” Therefore, Jesus “immortalised his body as well as his spirit. Any true devotee can see him as Jesus Christ or know him as one with the Infinite Christ.” Yogananda himself claimed to have been the witness of personal manifestation of Christ in bodily form several times, and from these to have received the very revelatory knowledge of the New Testament that fills his immense commentary.
 
...difference between Buddhism’s sambhogakaya
That not something deprived from the Sublime Buddha, but ideas of sects who have "Jesus-symptoms", Mohayana... That's also why this Sects who use the name of the Buddha are much more popular in western world. How it comes about that there are priests declaring a creater God was already supplied, good householder.

It's right that there isn't much different in views and practice between Christs and the Mohayana sect, both, if virtues, leading into Brahma realms. It's just that, once the lifespan there is over (for one without having gained the truth), since it's a sphere where all past merits are "eaten off", that one reapers in the lowest realms for other good "eternity".

So the study gravely lacks on knowledge about the Buddha-Dhamma, but just goes in competition with an invading sect: "Rightly" envy, yet wrong because a "false flag".
 
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That not something deprived from the Sublime Buddha, but ideas of sects who have "Jesus-symptoms", Mohayana... That's also why this Sects who use the name of the Buddha are much more popular in western world. How it comes about that there are priests declaring a creater God was already supplied, good householder.

It's right that there isn't much different in views and practice between Christs and the Mohayana sect, both, if virtues, leading into Brahma realms. It's just that, once the lifespan there is over (for one without having gained the truth), since it's a sphere where all past merits are "eaten off", that one reapers in the lowest realms for other good "eternity".

So the study gravely lacks on knowledge about the Buddha-Dhamma, but just goes in competition with an invading sect: "Rightly" envy, yet wrong because a "false flag".
 
I assume you follow the Theravada Tradition?
There is no such as xy-tradition, good householder. Simply this Dhamma-Vinaya (which was the Sublime Buddhas given name) of the Buddha, and no allowance of any update or new release.

And further, the Sublime Buddha has no intent to hinder anybody in gaining Union with beloved God, the opposite, he would teach the right way of conduct to success. Yet of course, neither Gods nor existence are for sure and lasting.
 
Where are we going? Is this buying into between 13 and 30 Jesus studying in India and bringing eastern thought to the west?
Good householder might forget that Jesus comes from the east as well, just another of the countless Brahmanic version of union with an almighty Supernatural being, phenomena.

As for where going: aside of just wishing, the right conducts and practice is necessary, next to a wise choice of what worthy to go for.
A virtuous person, not harming other being, renouncing sense-pleasure, developing compassion toward all beings, even if doing such, following the Brahmacariya (holy live), just for five years, is ensured to reach the Brahma-worlds.
 
It would be better to take the Buddhas account on the view of Reunion in account and build up, if wishing to refute it, on it: Buddha vs. Jesus (comparative study) (quote in OP).
To be honest, I think to engage in a meaningful discussion regarding the two teachings – Christ and Buddha – would require a meaningful understanding of where each of us is coming from, and I'm not sure your command of English is up to the task, and I have no command of German (?), or whatever language is comfortable to you ...
 
To be honest, I think to engage in a meaningful discussion regarding the two teachings – Christ and Buddha – would require a meaningful understanding of where each of us is coming from, and I'm not sure your command of English is up to the task, and I have no command of German (?), or whatever language is comfortable to you ...
My persons fault, shared the wrong topic: Origin of Creator-God religions.
And not really any desires to discuss. Just thought make useful for serious investigations and good grow, good householder.
 
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