The real meaning of 'Sin'?

[badger]

Hello all........ This thread is about 'Sin'.

These are my opinions about what sin is, and they're going to differ markedly from the Christian idea, for sure!

There were 613 Mosaic laws and if they had all been kept by any nation then that would have secured the nation in safety, strength, health, cohesion and success. Sadly the Israelite leaders kept busting them and that led to failures of various kinds; Prophet after Prophet would come to warn the Israelites about why they were failing with please that they return to the laws and a typical example of this would be the account in Lamentations.

There wasn't one law written that didn't help to build the successful system for the whole community, and when laws were broken they didn't lead to any kind of hel-after-life but simply caused Failure, either because of Sickness, Pandemic, Defeat, Strength, avoiding Weakness, etc etc.

If I glance through the books holding the Mosaic Laws and simply snatch one at random .....
.......................Deuteronomy {22:8} When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence................... then there you have it completely, put a safety rail or wall around your roof to protect people unless they fall off it.
Every single Mosaic Law is there to either support or to protect from dangers.

So dear reader, please show me your chosen Mosaic Laws which you think are nothing to do with the above and that will give me a chance to explain why or how they did what I'm suggesting.

Over to you.........

 

[wil]

I absolutely believe the stories and warnings in the Bible are written to benefit the folks of the community.

The Greek word for sin means "missing the mark". In the Hebrew Old Testament, the word most commonly used for sin is hattah, which also literally means "to miss the mark".
In Scripture, sin is defined as both lawlessness and falling short of the glory of God. This means that when people fail to uphold the glory of God, they are missing the mark. However, the mark that is missed does not necessarily need to be a moral mark, nor need it be missed immorally.


In my belief if you attempted to hit the bulls eye ya get some credit. That (to me) spells validation for the confessional.

We are all works in progress.

Unity's interpretation of the Ten Commandments goes well beyond conventional thoughts of "sin" and narrows the bullseye.

 

[badger]

I absolutely believe the stories and warnings in the Bible are written to benefit the folks of the community.

The Greek word for sin means "missing the mark". In the Hebrew Old Testament, the word most commonly used for sin is hattah, which also literally means "to miss the mark".
In Scripture, sin is defined as both lawlessness and falling short of the glory of God. This means that when people fail to uphold the glory of God, they are missing the mark. However, the mark that is missed does not necessarily need to be a moral mark, nor need it be missed immorally.

For sure. To 'miss the mark' thousands of years ago could mean failure, which would probably lead to serious sickness or death. Even the laws to promote unity and cohesion within the people had to be obeyed.......strictly.

In my belief if you attempted to hit the bulls eye ya get some credit. That (to me) spells validation for the confessional.

Sadly, failure hit the mark could only lead to failure of the nation. There are plenty of examples shown.

We are all works in progress.

Unity's interpretation of the Ten Commandments goes well beyond conventional thoughts of "sin" and narrows the bullseye.

Yes......how the church 'spun' sin in to it's Christian meaning is very sad.
For example......the reason why same sex coupling had to be banned is because:
....Young people HAD to couple as early as possible and bear children for the security and strength of the nation.
.....Same sex and adultery outside that couple increased the dangers of spreading infections through the nation = weakness and failure.
.....
Mosaic law was a blueprint for success and survival which the bible claimed has been offered to ANY people who would take it up. But those that didn't just died away.

 

[wil]

For example......the reason why same sex coupling had to be banned is because:
....Young people HAD to couple as early as possible and bear children for the security and strength of the nation.

Well we've done over coupled now eh? Billions and billions on the planet, not everyone needs to start bearing children at 13 anymore.

I find it interesting we start with "that sin" seems to me that modern Christians have much more issue with this than the Jews I know...it isn't even mentioned in the new Testament (Christian books) only in the OT (Jewsish Bible).

Yes......how the church 'spun' sin in to it's Christian meaning is very sad.

Yes the spin on not committing adultery isn't simply sex outside of marriage to Unity, but don't adulterate your beliefs. Don't add or subtract...of course me ..delving into more interfaith stuff...taking what I find of value in other religions and leaving behind what is no longer necessary (like concerning myself with what folks are doing in bed or what bathroom they use) is beyond me. (Although when dudes stand at the toilet I do hope they don't miss the mark or at least cleanup after themselves)

I mean is the mixing of linen and cotton still an issue? I have always found it interesting that in practice Jews still look at hundreds of sins...whereby most Christians focus on 10... I mean they even want them posted in schools now....yet consider the words of Jesus (beatitudes) to "woke" for elementary school walls and courtrooms??

 

[badger]

Well we've done over coupled now eh? Billions and billions on the planet, not everyone needs to start bearing children at 13 anymore.

Yes, but back then the Israelites needed to grow fast!
Mosaic laws were there for survival of countries at that time.

I find it interesting we start with "that sin" seems to me that modern Christians have much more issue with this than the Jews I know...it isn't even mentioned in the new Testament (Christian books) only in the OT (Jewsish Bible).

Many Christians have quoted Mosaic laws at me when they fiund it to be useful to them.

Yes the spin on not committing adultery isn't simply sex outside of marriage to Unity, but don't adulterate your beliefs. Don't add or subtract...of course me ..delving into more interfaith stuff...taking what I find of value in other religions and leaving behind what is no longer necessary (like concerning myself with what folks are doing in bed or what bathroom they use) is beyond me. (Although when dudes stand at the toilet I do hope they don't miss the mark or at least cleanup after themselves)

Many of the old laws are not so important now, such as banning gays or gay marriage, etc, but back then any kind of sex beyond marriage was deadly dangerous. And our cooking techniques and medical services can redact lots of the food laws, but even today the local council ban the eating of shellfish straight off the shoreline.

I mean is the mixing of linen and cotton still an issue?

In the UK our clothing rules are more strict than back then.
Have a look at the dress codes of our dignitaries at, say, the coronation. You can't wear a garter and ermine unless you are fully within the grand order of the garter....etc etc!
A masters degree wears a different gown to a bachelor........ He heh.... Dress codes? We've got oodles of em!

I have always found it interestingness that in practice Jews still look at hundreds of sins...whereby most Christians focus on 10... I mean they even want them posted in schools now....yet consider the words of Jesus (beatitudes) to "woke" for elementary school walls and courtrooms??

Nah......Christians follow and break thousands of laws, and most couldn't tell you ten commandments straight off...not here anyway.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I mean is the mixing of linen and cotton still an issue?

Personally, I don't see any problem with that .. as long as it's not sold
as pure cotton or something. Then it is fraudulent.

I think many people miss the point .. literalism is often used as a means to
argue against the spirit of the law .. which indeed was taught by Jesus (in the Gospel).

eg. it is unlawful to pick an apple from a tree and eat it on the sabbath

 

[Faithfulservant]

Im not really invested in this conversation but i wanted to share a theory as to why we arent supposed to mix linen and wool. Based on science! Shocker to all of those that say the bible is anti science. Here is an article that is very interesting. You can google this and find further information.

Scientific Details of the Linen Frequency Study

In 2003, a study was done by a Jewish doctor, Heidi Yellen, on the frequencies of fabric. According to this study, the human body has a signature frequency of 100, and organic cotton is the same – 100. The study showed that if the number is lower than 100, it puts a strain on the body. A...

yumelabel.com

Found another good article

https://manufacturedelin.com/blogs/blog/healing-powers-of-linen

 

[TheLightWithin]

Shocker to all of those that say the bible is anti science

I don't know if I've ever heard anybody say the bible itself is anti science as such.
It was written -- all parts of it were written-- long before the development of science as a discipline and well before modern science.
What has come to be known as anti-science is the insistence (by some) that scientific discoveries are wrong somehow if they seem to be inconsistent with statements in the bible.

I mean I remember being told growing up that the porhibition of pork (followed by some minority of Christian denominations like the one my grandfather followed) had to do with protecting people from trichinosis.
My Jewish roommate in college pointed out a variety of things in Jewish law that were rational and healthy in one way or another. For some reason I cannot remember the particulars except maybe the same one about trichinosis.

As to this study:
I'd have to look into it more to be sure, but this stuff about the energy frequencies sounds more like New Age ideas and might be pseudoscience.
If anybody has any more information about this already I would be curious.

Frequencies and Their Kindred Delusions

The word “frequency” ranks right up there with “quantum” and “energy” as a pseudoscientific buzzword. It is increasingly prevalent in product advertisements and in CAM claims about human b

sciencebasedmedicine.org

The Myth of Linen

Let me start by saying that I love wearing linen. Of course, linen is more expensive and requires considerably more care than wrinkle-free synthetics, but when you’re sitting outside at the Green Parrot Bar in Key West in August, it’s more than worth it.

www.linkedin.com

 

[badger]

Mixing linen with wool......Mosaic law banning this....

Sceptics have long questioned this law, maybe hoping that their questions might confound the other 612, maybe?

Linen was produced from the flax plant, I believe, and the shredding down of flax stems though several grades until the thread could be applied to linen clothing, this was a long drawn out and expensive process.

The lower ranks of the Israelites processed wool for clothing.

Many cultures of that time dictated what the people could wear, according to their status, and that principle STILL APPLIES today! For example, I purchase my jeans, t-shirts, jumpers and socks from a local supermarket at very low prices. My compression socks I get from an internet trader. I could buy several sets of clothing for the same price as a pair of jeans in a Bond street store!
I'm effectively banned from purchasing any clothes I like.

 

[Craz]

In case anyone want their clothes tested for shatnez(clothes containing wool & linen) there are shatnez testing centres all over.
Here's a link to get info The Shatnez Centre – The Jewish Designer Label

 

[badger]

I'll pass this thread over to other members from now.
The Abrahamic God offered these same laws to any people who might wish to take them on and follow them.

 

[Thomas]

... Er, I think Paul was of a different opinion?

 

[badger]

... Er, I think Paul was of a different opinion?

Paul should have read about what God said. He explained quite clearly that his laws were there for the nations present before the Israelites. He also explained that his laws needed to be kept in order that 'the land speweth you not out'.

You see? Carry these laws out for success and ignore them to your peril.....
at that time! Jesus clearly demanded their return as well, which Paul and the young churches clearly ignored.

These laws were for everybody.....not just Judaism.

I'll try starting a new thread from the perspective of Jesus, maybe.

 

[RabbiO]

Im not really invested in this conversation but i wanted to share a theory as to why we arent supposed to mix linen and wool. Based on science! Shocker to all of those that say the bible is anti science. Here is an article that is very interesting. You can google this and find further information....

If I expressed my opinion that both the lady, whose doctorate by the way is not connected to science, and her rabbi husband are both, in at least some ways, a sandwich short of a picnic, would I surprise you? I'll try to escape real life long enough to flesh out my response so both you and @TheLightWithin can get a decent response from me.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

Deuteronomy {22:8} When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence................... then there you have it completely, put a safety rail or wall around your roof to protect people unless they fall off it.

I know I am only a guest in this forum.
I essentially agree with you; we should follow the laws we received from the prophets, all of them, at the limit even if we don't know their name, but then it is difficult, even impossible to know whether we follow the Word of the Most High or an idea of a human.
Now, the reason why I write here is that I suspect this law more than others not to go back to Moses (peace and blessings be upon him). Why?
It's not because it doesn't make sense, it does. But in the time of the prophet, the Israelites were nomads or refugees. They didn't build houses. Why should they have received and remembered such law from Moses?
It's easy to find evidence assuming that the Torah is not a scripture of Moses, but it also contains traditions from before and traditions of his companions. These verses in particular, but also some details of the duties of the priests (who didn't exist in the time of Moses, but were in charge of teaching according to what they received through him) make me think that the Torah has a wider time span, also comprising teachings of later prophets and scholars.
What do you think about this?

 

[RabbiO]

There were 613 Mosaic laws.....

The concept that the Torah contains 613 commandments goes back to the sage Simlai who is quoted to that effect in the Talmud (Makkot 23b). Here's the thing though. Simlai did not provide a list, Although the list developed by Maimonides has become kind of the go to list that people use, it is not the only list. Although the various lists are in accord with one another, they are not mirror images. In point of fact, not one list can be singled out as THE list.

 

[RabbiO]

The concept that the Torah contains 613 commandments goes back to the sage Simlai who is quoted to that effect in the Talmud (Makkot 23b). Here's the thing though. Simlai did not provide a list, Although the list developed by Maimonides has become kind of the go to list that people use, it is not the only list. Although the various lists are in accord with one another, they are not mirror images. In point of fact, not one list can be singled out as THE list.

What I meant to say was - Although the various lists are in accord with one another in many ways, they are not mirror images. They do have differences….

 

[TheLightWithin]

If I expressed my opinion that both the lady, whose doctorate by the way is not connected to science, and her rabbi husband are both, in at least some ways, a sandwich short of a picnic, would I surprise you? I'll try to escape real life long enough to flesh out my response so both you and @TheLightWithin can get a decent response from me.

This talks a bit about her academic background Heidi Crawford-Yellen - Academia.edu

 

[badger]

The concept that the Torah contains 613 commandments goes back to the sage Simlai who is quoted to that effect in the Talmud (Makkot 23b). Here's the thing though. Simlai did not provide a list, Although the list developed by Maimonides has become kind of the go to list that people use, it is not the only list. Although the various lists are in accord with one another, they are not mirror images. In point of fact, not one list can be singled out as THE list.

Ah..... Now...... Since the Mosaic Laws as shown in my bible are not the only, or the full, list....can you confirm that they are in fact all correct...or not?

 

[Thomas]

Paul should have read about what God said.

I would hazard that Paul had a pretty good insight into what his faith was about.

He explained quite clearly that his laws were there for the nations present before the Israelites.

actually he explained that the Law, by which he means the binding principles of the Covenant with Isreal, refers to Israel, and does not place any obligation upon the gentile believer, eg circumcision, etc.

Jesus clearly demanded their return as well ...

I don't think so.

... which Paul and the young churches clearly ignored.

And yet you base this on the writings of Paul and the young churches, who transmitted in those texts we now hold as Scripture something they 'clearly ignored' and yet at the same time believed what they 'clearly ignored' to be something worth dying for ...