"Taking back Christmas"

An interesting video. I like that he mentions people who don't like to have their faith challenged. I have always wondered about them. Why is their faith so fragile?
 
rocala said:
An interesting video. I like that he mentions people who don't like to have their faith challenged. I have always wondered about them. Why is their faith so fragile?
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Why anything ... not just religion, but politics, it's all the same. People are comfortable in their ideas ... but then there are other ideologies at play.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Whose season is it?
I really appreciate his take on it, his spirit of generosity.
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Well, to be fair, I think "Christmas" is recognisably Christian ... ?

In the spirit of the occasion, I can agree, although I would nit-pick on certain points, but then he's seeking peace, rather than philosophical precision.

Does The Freedom From Religion Foundation erect billboards with that message around Muslim, Hindu or Jewish festivals ... and have those traditions not the right to claim the festival is theirs?

I acknowledge your right not to believe, please acknowledge mine to believe ... and please refrain from the desire to 'p**s on my chips' as we English say!

First They Came by Pastor Martin Niemöller springs to mind.

(ps: The idea of 'feast day' or 'festival' does not necessarily mean a party – as there are 'solemn feast days', or 'solemnities' as we call them.)

(pps: Not December 25? Evidence for that? I'm not saying it was, but there were strong arguments in favour knocking around when I delved into it ... and from the Traditional symbolic view, it is most fitting, in that there is a concordance between nature and the supernatural.)

End note – the League being 'conservative Christian' rings alarm bells for me (back to Nationalism, again), and the FFRF does spout some fundamentalist tripe ... so I leave it to St Michael to rock up and 'bang heads' if people refuse to see reason, and I find both parties lacking reason.

Buy hey! This is the season of Peace and Goodwill to all!

Happy Christmas

For unto us (all) a child is born"
 
Thomas said:
not just religion, but politics, it's all the same. People are comfortable in their ideas
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Yes, I have found this to be generally true. I guess I am a little different to most. I have always enjoyed people challenging my beliefs, both political and spiritual. I have learnt far more that way than by people just agreeing with me, but it seems most people are not actively seeking this.
 
rocala said:
Yes, I have found this to be generally true. I guess I am a little different to most. I have always enjoyed people challenging my beliefs, both political and spiritual. I have learnt far more that way than by people just agreeing with me, but it seems most people are not actively seeking this.
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People typically have their minds made up and too often they feel that changing 'it' indicates they were 'wrong'.
 
Thomas said:
Well, to be fair, I think "Christmas" is recognisably Christian ... ?
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Christmas is, yes, but this time of year is not exclusive to Christmas or Christianity, there are various holidays around this time of year, which is the point I think the Reverend was making. The non religious group with the signs was presumably just offering a counterpoint view probably due to being dubious about how overwhelmingly influential they think religion is,, but I don't know what outcome they were looking for.

Thomas said:
Does The Freedom From Religion Foundation erect billboards with that message around Muslim, Hindu or Jewish festivals ... and have those traditions not the right to claim the festival is theirs?
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I don't know, I guess it depends on what other holiday traditions might exist around that same time, or whether there are other concerns they have possibly related to a religious message they feel some need to counter. Non religious groups aren't acting in a vacuum. I'm not an atheist, but what they have to say doesn't upset me. Not anymore, anyway, and atheist views only ever upset me slightly and only if I was face to face with someone angry, argumentative, or contemptuous.

Thomas said:
First They Came by Pastor Martin Niemöller springs to mind.
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I'll have to look into that, sounds interesting

Thomas said:
I acknowledge your right not to believe, please acknowledge mine to believe ... and please refrain from the desire to 'p**s on my chips' as we English say!
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That would be the point of freedom of religion I think.

Thomas said:
(pps: Not December 25? Evidence for that? I'm not saying it was, but there were strong arguments in favour knocking around when I delved into it ... and from the Traditional symbolic view, it is most fitting, in that there is a concordance between nature and the supernatural.)
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My grandfather's heterodox church was strong in saying Jesus' birth date was NOT December but rather sometimes in the spring. (the Armstrong church was amongst those who dismissed celebrations of Christmas and Easter as supposedly "pagan" in one fell swoop belittling both pagans and historic Christianity.) Meanwhile my non religious mom and grandma continued to blithely observe Christmas and Easter in a secular, child-centered manner.

I've heard for a long time that it is generally thought that Jesus was NOT born in December, from various sources, but I think I need to look into it again. It would be nice if there were a genuine historic connection between the holiday as observed and the reality.

Thomas said:
End note – the League being 'conservative Christian' rings alarm bells for me (back to Nationalism, again)
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Indeed
Thomas said:
(ps: The idea of 'feast day' or 'festival' does not necessarily mean a party – as there are 'solemn feast days', or 'solemnities' as we call them.)
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🙏 😑🙏

Thomas said:
Buy hey! This is the season of Peace and Goodwill to all!

Happy Christmas
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Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!🎄🤶🎅
 
Want it always marketing? A method of expanding the belief aystem?

The whole war on Christmas is funny to me when every store you go in is playing Christmas songs, when Christmas lights are on houses all down the street and ya can find a Chijstmas tree put up by the govt in every capital.

But Christmas itself? It was made up right? Not only did it take a hundred years before we have any record of anyone officially celebrating the birth (other than mother Mary and siblings if they actually did that back then) but we only have a few written notes of Christmas celebrations....till it became official in 336?

And then there is the date, the tree, the yule log...

I don't know what we bring it back to...me thinks we are making yet another attempt to wrest it away from marketing.
 
Interesting thoughts that fit in this category
(My grandfather used to say that Christmas and Easter were pagan. I don't recall if he said anything like this, but he had to put up with my mom and grandma, far less religious than he, putting up a Christmas tree. Some years we had to have it in back bedrooms where he didn't usually go)

 
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