What have your beliefs cost you?

TheLightWithin

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Cherish religious freedom: yours, mine, everyone's
I ran across a notebook (years old) where I had written some observations about a radio show I was listening to, where a man was talking about religious belief and struggles he had had earlier in his life in his home country.

He was talking about his encounters with people from various religions in his new country and their take on religion.

I forget the exact context of his remark, but I wrote it down and it stuck with me, I do think of this from time to time:
He noted wanting to ask people, when he discussed these matters with him "But what have your beliefs COST you?" He was thinking of his own experience that of and people he knew having lost jobs or homes or gone to jail or something for their beliefs.

Yes, the idea has stuck with me since then, I think of it periodically and was glad to run across the reference again in my little notebook.

I think sometimes about what some people's beliefs have cost them.

For my grandfather, dietary restrictions, stated by his church to be biblical requirements, were not what he had grown up with nor lived most of his adult life with either, but they became a cost he took on as a result of his beliefs.

Also for my grandfather, I could see that what little harmony he might have had with my grandmother and my mother was compromised by his beliefs.
They were fed up with is rantings about the End Times and played no role in his dietary restrictions and fasting, even scoffed if they were fed up enough with his other antics.

I think all of them not having conventional religious beliefs probably cost them acceptance in a small town at least from some crowds.

For me, the lack of being raised in a conventional church definitely cost me some acceptance in some circles when I was a kid.
And the lack of an easy identity label (like a denomination label) growing up or in college. (As an adult, It was nice to find Unity church and fit in.)

I remember in college my Jewish roommate fasting one day and feeling very aggrieved about how when she went on a walk with some gentile friends, they spontaneously got ice cream in front of her though she could not participate. She was pretty upset with them. She maintained her fast.

A few religions practice ritual fasting, common possibly in some Eastern practices in addition to Judaism, Islam, and a few minority Christian denominations like my grandfather's.

Some denominations require their members to give up dancing, alcohol, tobacco, or even coffee and tea, entirely.

Others in various religions and denominations choose a life of asceticism, or for one reason or another, it is a choice made for them.

But in a country where we have (and hope we continue to have) religious freedom, my beliefs usually haven't incurred more "cost" than sometimes, in some settings, a little awkwardness, some nosy questions, some disapproving looks, a little gossip, a little preaching or evangelizing, or stern efforts at "correction" of my beliefs from those who think they've got it together, (or some limited haranguing online esp when Facebook was new.)

But many people pay a higher cost.

For some, the religious requirements themselves may be restrictive or demanding, or the social milieu one find's oneself in may be filled with people who do not approve of one's theology and want it changed.

Or maybe there are other things I hadn't thought of with this.

For anybody willing to answer:

What have your beliefs cost you?

A lot? A little? Anything?

What have your beliefs cost you?
 
I think sometimes about what some people's beliefs have cost them..
One of my sons-in-law was raised as a Sikh. He became a Muslim in his late teens, and his
father was furious, and threw him out. :oops:
He found a flat in Birmigham UK, and it took a few years for family to settle down.

Now, he gets on fine with his dad, and all is well.
 
One of my sons-in-law was raised as a Sikh. He became a Muslim in his late teens, and his
father was furious, and threw him out. :oops:
He found a flat in Birmigham UK, and it took a few years for family to settle down.

Now, he gets on fine with his dad, and all is well.
Thanks for your story.
I'm glad things ended up well there. 😇
 
I probably should have split my initial post in two. Or three. It would have been more readable. It is too long.😞
You still could, edit your first post cutting what you want out of it and paste it back into subsequent posts.

I find your term conventional beliefs interesting. America was supposedly instigated in part by religious freedom. Folks left Europe on little boats at great risk to get away from what you discussed.

And now we have a plethora of unconventional religions, snakes and scientology...oh my.
 
America was supposedly instigated in part by religious freedom. Folks left Europe on little boats at great risk to get away from what you discussed.
And now we have a plethora of unconventional religions, snakes and scientology...oh my.
Well folks left Europe to escape persecution and practice their often nonconformist religion without hindrance, so Puritans and Pilgrims (another branch of Puritanism), even Catholics and Protestants.

But 'religious freedom' wasn't personal, but communal; they set up religious communities and expected everyone within the community to adhere to the rule ...

But by enshrining the idea of religious freedom, this allowed religion as commercial enterprise ... and so it goes. That's where your '1,000s of Christian denominations' comes from.
 
I ran across a notebook (years old) where I had written some observations about a radio show I was listening to, where a man was talking about religious belief and struggles he had had earlier in his life in his home country.

He was talking about his encounters with people from various religions in his new country and their take on religion.

I forget the exact context of his remark, but I wrote it down and it stuck with me, I do think of this from time to time:
He noted wanting to ask people, when he discussed these matters with him "But what have your beliefs COST you?" He was thinking of his own experience that of and people he knew having lost jobs or homes or gone to jail or something for their beliefs.

Yes, the idea has stuck with me since then, I think of it periodically and was glad to run across the reference again in my little notebook.

I think sometimes about what some people's beliefs have cost them.
Interesting thread idea.
For my grandfather, dietary restrictions, stated by his church to be biblical requirements, were not what he had grown up with nor lived most of his adult life with either, but they became a cost he took on as a result of his beliefs.
My beliefs regarding food has cost me a lot of dinners! I suppose when I was a kid, it got me grounded for awhile(parents caved after awhile). Its sometimes caused annoyance towards me from others.
Also for my grandfather, I could see that what little harmony he might have had with my grandmother and my mother was compromised by his beliefs.
They were fed up with is rantings about the End Times and played no role in his dietary restrictions and fasting, even scoffed if they were fed up enough with his other antics.
Sometimes my marriage has been affected by my beliefs or resulting practices. At one time, my husband and I were both very religious. When life got hard, we coped in opposite ways. Because the more formal practices we enjoyed became impossible, there was a choice: adapt or drop. I adapted, he dropped. He became more entrenched in 'standard' matters, I lost most interest in them.

When I do something like fast, he'll put up with it; sometimes he'll consider keeping it. But, he always cops out last minute, and then whines about the chastity parts of my fast that affect him.
I think all of them not having conventional religious beliefs probably cost them acceptance in a small town at least from some crowds.
If I were a Christian or Muslim, I'd have opportunity for local community. But, I'm not. My beliefs have made it so I am unable to belong to any sort of in person religious community.
For me, the lack of being raised in a conventional church definitely cost me some acceptance in some circles when I was a kid.
And the lack of an easy identity label (like a denomination label) growing up or in college. (As an adult, It was nice to find Unity church and fit in.)
I think one cost of having a religion that's different from what's more common in an area is being misunderstood.

And celebrating your festivals and observances near alone.
I remember in college my Jewish roommate fasting one day and feeling very aggrieved about how when she went on a walk with some gentile friends, they spontaneously got ice cream in front of her though she could not participate. She was pretty upset with them. She maintained her fast.
I'm used to that kinda stuff...
A few religions practice ritual fasting, common possibly in some Eastern practices in addition to Judaism, Islam, and a few minority Christian denominations like my grandfather's.

Some denominations require their members to give up dancing, alcohol, tobacco, or even coffee and tea, entirely.

Others in various religions and denominations choose a life of asceticism, or for one reason or another, it is a choice made for them.

But in a country where we have (and hope we continue to have) religious freedom, my beliefs usually haven't incurred more "cost" than sometimes, in some settings, a little awkwardness, some nosy questions, some disapproving looks, a little gossip, a little preaching or evangelizing, or stern efforts at "correction" of my beliefs from those who think they've got it together, (or some limited haranguing online esp when Facebook was new.)

But many people pay a higher cost.

For some, the religious requirements themselves may be restrictive or demanding, or the social milieu one find's oneself in may be filled with people who do not approve of one's theology and want it changed.
That's happened a few times over the years.
Or maybe there are other things I hadn't thought of with this.

For anybody willing to answer:

What have your beliefs cost you?

A lot? A little? Anything?

What have your beliefs cost you?
They've cost me some, what I've gained makes it worth it.
 
America was supposedly instigated in part by religious freedom. Folks left Europe on little boats at great risk to get away from what you discussed..
Indeed..

The persecution of Anabaptists was condoned by the ancient laws of Theodosius I and Justinian I which were passed against the Donatists, and decreed the death penalty for anyone who practised rebaptism.
Anabaptism - Wikipedia

The Amish have roots in Europe, and migrated to US to escape persecution and death.
 
It seems often that others beliefs cause me problems...not mine.

I was acting in a play, prolly 4th grade. They were working on other portions of the play that a number of us were not involved in.

So the side group started playing cards, I joined. The director came over and stopped us....because it was Sunday...and whatever denomination she was in, whatever she believed, it was no cards on Sunday. I already had had my arguments with church leaders...so knew enough to get in trouble.

"So cards are work? The scripture says no work on the sabbath...you are working...we are playing"
 
In the movie Chariots of Fire, the religious observances and identities of the main characters complicate and enhance their lives as competitive athletes, and they sometimes have to reflect on whether their competitive careers are getting in the way of their faith commitments. Or whether the opposite is true.

(It's been years since I've seen it but when I did watch it, I noted those things, because the movie was way different than I thought it was)
 
Well folks left Europe to escape persecution and practice their often nonconformist religion without hindrance, so Puritans and Pilgrims (another branch of Puritanism), even Catholics and Protestants.

But 'religious freedom' wasn't personal, but communal; they set up religious communities and expected everyone within the community to adhere to the rule ...

But by enshrining the idea of religious freedom, this allowed religion as commercial enterprise ... and so it goes. That's where your '1,000s of Christian denominations' comes from.
True the colony of Virginia REQUIRED that you attend church once a month, they checked attendance. The country folk made it their monthly trip into town to get supplies...and prayed up I suppose. The sanctioned churches guarenteed.money in their coffers.

Our current issue is they aren't taxed...not like individuals, not like corporations...zilch.

Which of our new world denominations have yall not imported?
 
But 'religious freedom' wasn't personal, but communal; they set up religious communities and expected everyone within the community to adhere to the rule ...

But by enshrining the idea of religious freedom, this allowed religion as commercial enterprise ... and so it goes. That's where your '1,000s of Christian denominations' comes from.
I find personal religious freedom to be essential to personal freedom.
Do you think it is ungood?
 
expected everyone within the community to adhere to the rule ...
True the colony of Virginia REQUIRED that you attend church once a month, they checked attendance
How dare they.
Brings up questions about the role of government... but that's politics so can't expand upon.
 
But 'religious freedom' wasn't personal, but communal; they set up religious communities and expected everyone within the community to adhere to the rule ...
Another question about that... in such a community, are obedience, repentance and salvation (however conceived) also seen as communal? Or are they seen as individual responsibilities and destinies?
 
Being non-trinitarian throws a wrench into me attending any 'Trinitarian' Church. I would never be a JW so I'm very limited as to where I can go. I'm considering attending a Universalist Church nearby - like 30 miles away!

Being I reject trinity cost me by limiting the places I can fellowship. Some trinitarians - especially the Calvinist and Fundamentalist, often CONDEMN those of us who reject Trinity.
 
Being non-trinitarian throws a wrench into me attending any 'Trinitarian' Church. I would never be a JW so I'm very limited as to where I can go. I'm considering attending a Universalist Church nearby - like 30 miles away!

Being I reject trinity cost me by limiting the places I can fellowship. Some trinitarians - especially the Calvinist and Fundamentalist, often CONDEMN those of us who reject Trinity.
If you could find a Christadelphian fellowship... anywhere in your vicinity, you might like it there.

Also at least nowadays we can join on Zoom in a lot of places
 
If you could find a Christadelphian fellowship... anywhere in your vicinity, you might like it there.

Also at least nowadays we can join on Zoom in a lot of places
I have researched that before. They aren't very active around here. There are some in Massachusetts and they only meet during winter. I think there were others meeting in homes a few towns over.

If I remember correctly, there were other things that they believed that I didn't agree with, so I never pursued it.

People are abandoning 'church' these days. The last few I've been to - one Congregational church, etc. had horrible pastors.
 
I have researched that before. They aren't very active around here. There are some in Massachusetts and they only meet during winter. I think there were others meeting in homes a few towns over.

If I remember correctly, there were other things that they believed that I didn't agree with, so I never pursued it.

People are abandoning 'church' these days. The last few I've been to - one Congregational church, etc. had horrible pastors.
There are a few in New York State. I don't know where you are.
There are various ones across the country. I think they are more common in the UK and Down Under, interestingly.

There are also Church of God 7th Day, United Church of God, Restored Church of God, really various offshoots of the old Armstrong churches. There are a scattered few others. You could PM me if you want more information.

I had started a thread on Heterodoxy. It didn't really go where I thought it might, but you could look at it and add to it.
There are many threads here about the Trinity and why people agree or disagree with it.
 
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