Aphantasia - Mind Unseen

[TheLightWithin]

Mind Unseen: Invisible Landscapes of Perception and Thought

Can you picture an apple in your mind? Do you know some people cannot do that? Let's explore the hidden diversity of inner perceptual worlds.

www.psychologytoday.com

Aphantasia

Aphantasia is the inability to form mental images; a person without a mind’s eye cannot imagine the scene of a sandy beach, for example. They cannot visualize people, places, objects, or other images. This is not a clinical disorder or disability, it is considered a neurological characteristic...

www.psychologytoday.com

Examples of how people can think differently, in even the fundamental basics of thought.
I only learned a few years ago about this aphantasia thing. It blows my mind that there are some people who do not think in pictures.
I never even recognized it as a notable thing at all until my late 20s when I read Temple Grandin's book "Thinking in Pictures"

https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Pictures-Expanded-Life-Autism/dp/0307275655

I just thought that pictures is what thoughts were.
I remember reading something once where someone was looking at a picture of an international model or celebrity, and their comment was "You cannot tell what her thoughts are, or what language she is thinking them in" which seemed strange to me, because I didn't think that our thoughts were in language. I thought we translated our thoughts to language once we were ready to speak.

I never thought about it at all till then (despite my interest in psychology, I had never run across that topic till then)
A fish doesn't know it is in water.

Upon further reflection over the years I realize some of my thoughts are language based, but most of my simpler thoughts are like little gifs, since long before gifs were invented. It seems effortless to translate them to language when needed, except when I am very tired.
My more involved thoughts are like commercials or even full movies.

What are your thoughts like?

 

[TheLightWithin]

Was hoping this might interest people or get a discussion going about the nature of thought...

 

[Vasu Devan]

Well, inner thought is probably one of the most common events in the human experience. If pictures are an important part of their external experience, so is probably inner visuals. The desire for a silent mind didn't get big till awareness/interest in meditation from the East became popular. Thought itself becomes identified with the self till meditation shows us that most of our thoughts are not created by us but are rather uncontrolled, temporary events in our consciousness.

At least, Zen meditation did that for me. And Vipassana meditation showed me that most of my moment-to-moment physical events(mostly aches and itches) were random and could be ignored too. Arisings. And now of course it's accepted offically by science that the many changes in our reality like those of color/sound/touch are illusions created by the brain, not the 'true' physical world.

So what is reality itself?

 

[TheLightWithin]

Well, inner thought is probably one of the most common events in the human experience. If pictures are an important part of their external experience, so is probably inner visuals.

Apparently though, there are some people who just don't seem to think in images. Even if in real life they watch movies and things.
It's just how they process things that is different than many.

Do you see movies in your mind when reading? You're not alone

Lia Shields can't picture anything when she gets lost in a book—but as it turns out, she has a very different experience to her fellow book lovers.

www.newsweek.com

Then famous Temple Grandin being the opposite

THINKING IN PICTURES: Autism and Visual Thought

 

[Vasu Devan]

Apparently though, there are some people who just don't seem to think in images. Even if in real life they watch movies and things.

I rarely think in images myself. Visual imagining is much much more unused in my mental space than verbal. Prolly cos I'm a bookworm. Our mental ability to visualize an object is much weaker than to verbalize it. I also discovered that it is impossible for me at least to visualize more than 3-4 objects simultaneously. Beyond those numbers, there is quick flashing between scenes holding subsets rather than one whole inclusive scene.

 

[powessy]

Was hoping this might interest people or get a discussion going about the nature of thought...

The brain is a powerful tool and can be taught many ways to figuring things out. Minds say that within the neurons of the brain there are mitochondria that lay dormant that do nothing and figure nothing out it is these mitochondria that are used to process imagery and dreams. I believe we create mitochondrial yourselves to help us in performing tasks both in motion and at rest. Many people call this phenomenon muscle memory but it is mitochondria memory that works together with the cells to perform these trained tasks.

The great majority of people live outside of themselves through life interactions and daily living never really spending time inside of themselves. Many years ago I noticed that when I thought about something I would think about it on my voice box or as though I was talking thoughts out. It took me a while to stop this process and move my thoughts into my frontal cortex where it seemed my thoughts felt more comfortable. Often I will be speaking to others and I will notice that they sometimes will mouth the conversation as a way to understand what is being said to them.

I will often teach my brain through mind photos, to look at something and then close my eyes and trap the image in my brain where they will often play with the image. I can imagine several moving parts and process all within one imagination with their help this can be done very easily. I can close my eyes and open my minds eye and can interact with minds outside of myself that can teach me things that don't make sense to me I do this when I have time to do this for it takes time to put thoughts together for them and for me. What I mean when I say things that don't make sense to me is, that the things I see and experience are things not part of my daily experiences or life here.

I do many brain exercises often to learn new things the more things you learn the more parts of the brain that come alive to figure something out. I do not understand how others think without these abilities to learn and conceptualize ideas.

powessy

 

[Vasu Devan]

The matter of the brain can fail. Like a deteriorating tool. Changes in the matter change the mental state. But that works two ways too. Mental changes can also drastically change the matter as neuro studies of long term meditators showed. Or even just neuroplasticity in the disabled. I've got a epileptogenic focus near my emotion and memory centers and that has changed my consciousness experience in many ways. I am fascinated by the ways we can all perceive.

One of the coolest things I learned was that chopping brain in half can still lead to functional life once the two brains adapt. But also that in the interim period it is possible for 2 personalities to handle the one half of the body simultaneously. And how the many inner personalities can gain full control of the body against the will of the default personality in multiple personality disorder. That has been a personal experience. Not just something I read about.

 

[muhammad_isa]

One of the coolest things I learned was that chopping brain in half can still lead to functional life once the two brains adapt...

How did your brain get "chopped in half" ?

 

[iBrian]

How did your brain get "chopped in half" ?

It used to be a treatment for severe epilepsy to cut the nerves directly linking both cerebral hemispheres - it might even still be used. It's certainly given psychology textbooks extra content.

 

[muhammad_isa]

It used to be a treatment for severe epilepsy to cut the nerves directly linking both cerebral hemispheres - it might even still be used. It's certainly given psychology textbooks extra content.

I didn't know that.
I have met people who've had a frontal lobotomy. I don't think that "they" do that
any more.

 

[Vasu Devan]

How did your brain get "chopped in half" ?

Oh, sorry. My post may be confusing. Even though I had epilepsy since age 5, the meds control it so I didn't need to chop my brain in half(corpus callosectomy). My learning of chopped brains is purely due to my interest in psychology and neuroscience books. No, my personal experience is of multiple personality disorder known popularly now as dissociative identity disorder(DID).

 

[Vasu Devan]

It used to be a treatment for severe epilepsy to cut the nerves directly linking both cerebral hemispheres - it might even still be used. It's certainly given psychology textbooks extra content.

Spot on @iBrian . It's still done apparently but only as a last ditch, last resort option now. When all else has failed. I suppose when the epilepsy is really bad and you don't mind some functional loss(brain is adaptive) so that you are not spazzing out or going into near fatal status epilepticus regularly.

I was more surprised to find that electroconvulsive therapy(ECT) is still done.e.g in the city where I live, Trivandrum. I suppose Indians who can't afford more expensive options may turn to it as regular therapy than one-time, under anaesthesia option of callosectomy. The latter sounds scarier admittedly.

 

[powessy]

Oh, sorry. My post may be confusing. Even though I had epilepsy since age 5, the meds control it so I didn't need to chop my brain in half(corpus callosectomy). My learning of chopped brains is purely due to my interest in psychology and neuroscience books. No, my personal experience is of multiple personality disorder known popularly now as dissociative identity disorder(DID).

When the voices started I went to almost every site imaginable to try to find answers to them. Most of the people saying they hear voices may have heard a voice once or they had much greater emotional problems going on, like pushed thoughts or triggered thoughts but not real voices. When I was younger and first started drinking is when i first realized I was just inside of this body becoming it, but becoming ourselves here together. I remember my body being completely drunken and yet I was sober as long as I didn't become it, our thoughts and feeling was not the same. When I have out of body experiences my thoughts are not my brains thoughts when I am not inside of myself.

You say DID this could also be mitochondrial yourselves slices of yourself becoming yourself, I often see this as,in the light or not in the light. minds often say " it is to badly done to become something here" if this happens then something else will try to find time here.

powessy

 

[TheLightWithin]

I was more surprised to find that electroconvulsive therapy(ECT) is still done.

It is still used in the US as well, it made a resurgence, notably for conditions that are resistant to other treatments.

Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT) Has Changed: What You Should Know

A Yale psychiatrist answers questions about electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), a psychiatric treatment that involves sending electrical currents through the brain.

www.yalemedicine.org

Declining use of electroconvulsive therapy in US general hospitals - PMC

Falling duration of psychiatric inpatient stays over the past two decades and recent recommendations to tighten federal regulation of electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) devices have focused attention on trends in ECT use, but current national data have ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Vasu Devan]

When the voices started I went to almost every site imaginable to try to find answers to them. Most of the people saying they hear voices may have heard a voice once or they had much greater emotional problems going on, like pushed thoughts or triggered thoughts but not real voices. When I was younger and first started drinking is when i first realized I was just inside of this body becoming it, but becoming ourselves here together. I remember my body being completely drunken and yet I was sober as long as I didn't become it, our thoughts and feeling was not the same. When I have out of body experiences my thoughts are not my brains thoughts when I am not inside of myself.

You say DID this could also be mitochondrial yourselves slices of yourself becoming yourself, I often see this as,in the light or not in the light. minds often say " it is to badly done to become something here" if this happens then something else will try to find time here.

powessy

Thanks for sharing @powessy . The cause in my case was a shift in my stress related epileptic behavior. Instead of physical seizures, it escalated to manic psychosis episodes. Screwed up a ton of stuff leading to inability to finish my Bsc in Computer Science, leaving Canada permanently and amnesia of my teens, 20s and 30s. But, thank the gods, I've become stable now. No manic episodes for first 2 years since I came back to the world at 38(now 47) years of age. I believe the meditation during conscious stage of psychosis did it. Parents swear by the mediCation. Possibly a mix of both.

I dunno if I would call my communications 'hearing voices' though. I only had actual auditory hallucinations once and then it was of my father talking about me in the hospital ward, not my alternate personality talking to me vocally. For me, it spoke via thoughts in my head that I did not identify with. Laughing at me or threatening me. Since it could control the body, it had influence beyond the mental. My fear would escalate which increased stress, giving the alter power to do more, which lead to fear and so a loop was established. Leading to unconscious psychosis. It would run around raving and trying to self harm the body. But when I decided to face the emotions and thoughts with a zen 'observe but dont engage thoughts' type meditation, it radically changed many aspects of the alter.

Strange that drinking led to it for you. Before this, I only read that psychedelics or strong drugs/bad trips could be a cause. Never alcohol. Glad you got control.

 

[powessy]

Thanks for sharing @powessy . The cause in my case was a shift in my stress related epileptic behavior. Instead of physical seizures, it escalated to manic psychosis episodes. Screwed up a ton of stuff leading to inability to finish my Bsc in Computer Science, leaving Canada permanently and amnesia of my teens, 20s and 30s. But, thank the gods, I've become stable now. No manic episodes for first 2 years since I came back to the world at 38(now 47) years of age. I believe the meditation during conscious stage of psychosis did it. Parents swear by the mediCation. Possibly a mix of both.

I dunno if I would call my communications 'hearing voices' though. I only had actual auditory hallucinations once and then it was of my father talking about me in the hospital ward, not my alternate personality talking to me vocally. For me, it spoke via thoughts in my head that I did not identify with. Laughing at me or threatening me. Since it could control the body, it had influence beyond the mental. My fear would escalate which increased stress, giving the alter power to do more, which lead to fear and so a loop was established. Leading to unconscious psychosis. It would run around raving and trying to self harm the body. But when I decided to face the emotions and thoughts with a zen 'observe but dont engage thoughts' type meditation, it radically changed many aspects of the alter.

Strange that drinking led to it for you. Before this, I only read that psychedelics or strong drugs/bad trips could be a cause. Never alcohol. Glad you got control.

I was thirteen when I first realized that I could separate myself from the body, My out of body experiences also started around that time. I never had voices at that time and my dreams were always clear of things nothing in them they were empty of people or anything living until thirteen years ago. I had others come into to me and they did something inside of my mind for the voices to begin, it was on my request. My voices are none stop 24/7 all the time talking and teaching. I have physical hallucinations as well 24/7 as doctors would call it but they could never understand this process of minds. I went to many hearing voices sights and schizophrenic sites to find time to find out what was teaching them things all I found was the same thing as you are describing above from your own experiences. The voice in your head or pushed thoughts as I call them are from himself. You see when we become badly done enough then our mind tries to enter into us, He will do anything to keep your mind from becoming you he will make you so badly done that as I said before your mind will not become you. The reason I do not suffer this is because I became myself before he figured me out, I became myself first. I have never done drugs and only drank for ten years before I quit to raise my family I have never been badly done from this they would not allow it.

I am sorry that you had to suffer himself and those that caused you so much lost time, I am still trying to find time linked to many of these types of problems but they do it now without me knowing anything at all. Once I figure something out and find it's time I do not have to figure it out again. I have read so many peoples experiences with this, it only makes me mad and want to do more but I am right now only trying to figure out the here, here and here problem that they are trying to understand.

I am glad you found some quiet of your mind.

powessy

 

[Vasu Devan]

I had others come into to me and they did something inside of my mind for the voices to begin, it was on my request. My voices are none stop 24/7 all the time talking and teaching.

I never had the multitude of beings so many with the real issue have. Just 2. Original labels were Devil and God and the Godself was silent 99% of the time, but when it spoke, it changed my life and psyche. It was the one that suggested meditation while the Devil talked. Now I just use darkself and lightself. I don't recall if I told my family about them. My parents and younger bro are not willing to discuss the details of my earlier nature and I'm not gonna push them. They've done way over their fair share of supporting me in any case. I'd either be dead or mentally disabled most likely without them.

I have never done drugs and only drank for ten years before I quit to raise my family I have never been badly done from this they would not allow it.

It's good that you managed to be a husband and father. I tried during a lull but beyond memory of my marriage night and the night my wife asked for a divorce, there is no memory of a relationship. I'm actually glad no kids came of it or there would be more people suffering now. Lucky save. My wife was from an arranged Christian marriage so no love there. I found a truly loving Hindu woman at a mental rehab but she had to stay when I left. We exchanged contact info but there is still no reply to my emails so at best I can say her parents are still keeping her in rehab. Mental rehabs in India are nothing more than prisons. No contact allowed except with family and only when they call, not when u want. Convenient place for families to stash their unwanted if the money is available. Residence is not always voluntary either. Family members can be sedated unknowingly to go in there.

I am glad you found some quiet of your mind.

powessy

Thank you. I can only hope you found some form of stability as well. Especially if you're raising a family. This will always hang over us as a disturbing 'what if it returns?' for the future. It taught me how little we control our realities in the one we share. At the most, we have some hope of adaptation based on the attitude we choose --- face, fear or hate. And recent neuroscience indicates the free will of choice itself may be illusion. Still, nothing to do but continue and I will not say I am unhappy or frightened. The fear state is only a problem if we resist it. If we don't, it is a pleasant state that is almost a high because of the adrenaline rush. That's what meditation taught me. Take care @powessy

 

[powessy]

I never had the multitude of beings so many with the real issue have. Just 2. Original labels were Devil and God and the Godself was silent 99% of the time, but when it spoke, it changed my life and psyche. It was the one that suggested meditation while the Devil talked. Now I just use darkself and lightself. I don't recall if I told my family about them. My parents and younger bro are not willing to discuss the details of my earlier nature and I'm not gonna push them. They've done way over their fair share of supporting me in any case. I'd either be dead or mentally disabled most likely without them.

It's good that you managed to be a husband and father. I tried during a lull but beyond memory of my marriage night and the night my wife asked for a divorce, there is no memory of a relationship. I'm actually glad no kids came of it or there would be more people suffering now. Lucky save. My wife was from an arranged Christian marriage so no love there. I found a truly loving Hindu woman at a mental rehab but she had to stay when I left. We exchanged contact info but there is still no reply to my emails so at best I can say her parents are still keeping her in rehab. Mental rehabs in India are nothing more than prisons. No contact allowed except with family and only when they call, not when u want. Convenient place for families to stash their unwanted if the money is available. Residence is not always voluntary either. Family members can be sedated unknowingly to go in there.

Thank you. I can only hope you found some form of stability as well. Especially if you're raising a family. This will always hang over us as a disturbing 'what if it returns?' for the future. It taught me how little we control our realities in the one we share. At the most, we have some hope of adaptation based on the attitude we choose --- face, fear or hate. And recent neuroscience indicates the free will of choice itself may be illusion. Still, nothing to do but continue and I will not say I am unhappy or frightened. The fear state is only a problem if we resist it. If we don't, it is a pleasant state that is almost a high because of the adrenaline rush. That's what meditation taught me. Take care @powessy

In my minds eye i see a pathway with a man standing on it with hands straight outwards from his sides. His body is translucent with yellow and blue veins throughout his body. On both sides of this pathway are people good on his right and evil on his left they have to know who he is in the center before they can become something again. In life we do things that are not us and when we do these things minds on the right or left of the path can become us. To find time in the center we have to just become ourselves to figure ourselves out, I say to find your line, who you are. This pathway is judgments it is us not being who we really are not being true to ourselves and those around us.

I would say I have legion that would be the easiest way to explain the multitude of minds teaching me thoughts about thoughts.

I am 55 years old and my children have all grown up leaving me and my wife to relearn ourselves as we grow closer and closer together all the time.


Thank you for sharing your experience.

powessy

 

[Vasu Devan]

I am 55 years old and my children have all grown up leaving me and my wife to relearn ourselves as we grow closer and closer together all the time.

That is wonderful that you achieved that. Truly beautiful. Congratulations to both of you. Light shining in the darkness is the brightest and most eyecatching.

 

[wil]

I dont think in pictures except dreaming

I dont think in words

I dont know how I think

I dont know

I dont think

I dont

I.

I find it awfully interesting but I often dont think about thinking, I can't it hurts.

Often in writing a response here or saying one in public it is without thinking. I need to write it or say it to find out what I am thinking

While others talk thoughts and responses flow but they are largely fleeting and cannot be recalled when asked even if I intentionally tried to remember (I have to say it or write it down to recall it)

I have repeatedly read what I wrote...and not recalled any of it. (Be it yesterday or a year ago...not always but often enough to irritate me) I often hear a good idea or comment from others only to ask where they learned that "Err...from you?"

In playing chess I can't think ahead moves, I just play. My life has been similar...but it all works....for me...and a big reason I stay away from therapy.