Master and Lord

[Longfellow]

In John 13:13 (KJV), Jesus says “Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.”

I don’t call myself a Christian because I don’t have all the same beliefs as any Christians, but I think of Jesus as my Master and Lord, and this is for anyone else who thinks of Him that way. These are some random thoughts about people calling themselves “Christians,” arguing and debating in online forums about who and what He is, and other doctrinal issues.

First, I have done it myself, a lot, and I still do, and I think that there might be some benefit in it if we do it in the right spirit. I’m not thinking that it’s always wrong.

One of my concerns is that I think that it hides from people what I think Jesus most wants people to know, and sometimes even repels people away from learning about it. Another is that I see some of it as a sign and symptom of people being psychologically subjugated for marketing and fundraising purposes.

I’m not sure that there’s anything that anyone can do about any of that, in any online forums, but I’ll be thinking about that now.

 

[Longfellow]

There's more that I want to say about my concerns, but first I want to talk about possible responses. These will just be some random thoughts that come to mind, before I've done much thinking about it.

When I say "we" in this thread, I'm not saying that as a Christian to other Christians. I'm not claiming to be a Christian. I'm saying it as a person who thinks of Jesus as his Master and Lord, to other people who think of Him the same way, if anyone else here does.

One thought that came to me is the apostle Paul's response to divisions between disciples. I was reading that, and one thing that struck me was his emphasis on Christ crucified. That gave me something to think about. I might say more about that later. I'll be studying that part of 1 Corinthians to see what ideas I can get from it, for what to do about divisions between disciples of Christ.

Another thought is for us who think of Jesus as our Master and Lord, to make it clear what we agree on, if anything, about the gospel of Jesus. Not to say that the things we disagree about are not important, but that what we agree on is also important, because it might attract people to learn more about it, and then see for themselves whatever truth there is to see. This might be similar to what C.S. Lewis says in "Mere Christianity," except that I don't agree with everything that he includes in "mere Christianity."

I don't think that it's as simple as people reading the Bible for themselves, because many people, maybe most people, will only see what they are being programmed to see by whatever faction they identify with.

For now, my best hope would be in people seeing a fellowship between people who think of Jesus as their Master and their Lord, and being attracted to that more than to whatever faction they're currently identifying with.

I'll be thinking about all of this some more, and hoping to see posts about it from other people who think of Jesus as their Master and Lord.

 

[Longfellow]

Maybe what I'm hoping for in this thread is to find people who think that there really was a person like Jesus in the gospels, teaching when and where the stories say He did, and who believe that He is our Master and our Lord, by the will of God. Whatever they believe or don't believe about God, Jesus, and salvation, they believe that He is our Master and our Lord, by the will of God.

 

[Longfellow]

I've been studying the apostle Paul's response in 1 Corinthians to disciples dividing into camps. He starts with Christ crucified, which might be to break everyone's pride. The one who saves you was a promised king executed like a common criminal, mocked and humiliated.

 

[Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu]

Good householder,

Just general, in regard of right view: A person, being, not present, could be hardly regarded as one's master. Relation in training is something living, and with duties of both.

There are cases, where one might find relation to a non-human being, deity.

Most that people usualy take refuge is pure fightion and if investigating serious, it's just refuge in own ideas and views. That's especially where people worship what ever phantom or imagination. Actually just bowing down and cherish their own views, their own hopes, fictions. Or simply follow others, actualky not at all knowing what's relation, dependency.

Western, modern people seldom have sight understanding of relation and dependency, used to consume on societies, they hardly ever could bow down, show respect, even toward, whatjs called "first Gods", their parents.

Grown up as an "orphan" in societies with lack of basic right view, it's very, very seldom that one could even overcome the illusion and the conceit coming along with a notion of "I can" and believe of independency. It's merely regarded as a sign of weakness and causing annoyance, if a certain person bows down, has deep regard and respect, does services for him, whi gives dependency.

Not sure if there is even any "Creater-God"-religion who has such as a lineage, back to a certain original teacher. Maybe those calked Apostles, might originally had the use of transmission and carry on, but my person thinks, even if there was, it already has died out.

 

[Longfellow]

Good householder,

Just general, in regard of right view: A person, being, not present, could be hardly regarded as one's master. Relation in training is something living, and with duties of both.

There are cases, where one might find relation to a non-human being, deity.

Most that people usualy take refuge is pure fightion and if investigating serious, it's just refuge in own ideas and views. That's especially where people worship what ever phantom or imagination. Actually just bowing down and cherish their own views, their own hopes, fictions. Or simply follow others, actualky not at all knowing what's relation, dependency.

Western, modern people seldom have sight understanding of relation and dependency, used to consume on societies, they hardly ever could bow down, show respect, even toward, whatjs called "first Gods", their parents.

Grown up as an "orphan" in societies with lack of basic right view, it's very, very seldom that one could even overcome the illusion and the conceit coming along with a notion of "I can" and believe of independency. It's merely regarded as a sign of weakness and causing annoyance, if a certain person bows down, has deep regard and respect, does services for him, whi gives dependency.

Not sure if there is even any "Creater-God"-religion who has such as a lineage, back to a certain original teacher. Maybe those calked Apostles, might originally had the use of transmission and carry on, but my person thinks, even if there was, it already has died out.

Yeah, I'm not sure this can really go anywhere, but I want to give it a try anyway.

 

[Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu]

It's certain a good topic, if seen generaly in regard of right view, but as told, most will not "survive" it, since already, what's called: corrupted. To start: a teacher, spiritual guide, refuge, isn't obligated to care, but has given dependency, out of compassion. Such isn't one's "friend" or someone even equal. If seen so, or accepted by one, that it's a corrupt relation. The usual simile is a right relation like between father and son (difficult to grasp, since most wouldn't know such in a health manner). Both taking care of each other with their own duties in that relation, for the sake of "spiritual growing" and to stay pure.

 

[Thomas]

One of my concerns is that I think that it hides from people what I think Jesus most wants people to know, and sometimes even repels people away from learning about it.

If we go on the most common and hard-driven themes in the Gospels, that would reduce to:
The Kingdom of God is at hand – Repent – Fear not.

 

[Longfellow]

It's certain a good topic, if seen generaly in regard of right view, but as told, most will not "survive" it, since already, what's called: corrupted. To start: a teacher, spiritual guide, refuge, isn't obligated to care, but has given dependency, out of compassion. Such isn't one's "friend" or someone even equal. If seen so, or accepted by one, that it's a corrupt relation. The usual simile is a right relation like between father and son (difficult to grasp, since most wouldn't know such in a health manner). Both taking care of each other with their own duties in that relation, for the sake of "spiritual growing" and to stay pure.

Now I don't know how I thought that a relationship with a story about a master teacher could be like a relationship with a Master teacher. Then again, I'm not sure that it can't. It needs a community, but that's exactly what I'm hoping for here. Of course, trying to do it online rather than in person is an experiment that might never have been tried. Yeah, I might be going pretty far out on a limb here.

 

[Longfellow]

If we go on the most common and hard-driven themes in the Gospels, that would reduce to:
The Kingdom of God is at hand – Repent – Fear not.

I agree that it's about the kingdom.

Are you volunteering as a person who believes that Jesus is our Master and Lord as in John 13:13?

(later) Oh! Agreement on those points, at least the first two. I'll need to immerse myself in the gospels again for the third.

 

[Thomas]

Are you volunteering as a person who believes that Jesus is our Master and Lord as in John 13:13?

As a person who believes that Jesus is God, in the orthodox Christological sense as defined at Chalcedon in 451.

 

[Longfellow]

As a person who believes that Jesus is God, in the orthodox Christological sense as defined at Chalcedon in 451.

Well, does that include believing in Him as Master and Lord? Because that's what I want to talk about in this thread. That's why I labeled it "Master and Lord." And as I said, in this thread I want to talk about what we, those who believe in Him that way, agree about, not what we disagree about.

 

[walter]

1 Timothy 2:5
Berean Standard Bible
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Acts 20:35
King James Bible
I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Colossians 3:24
New Living Translation
Remember that the Lord will give you an inheritance as your reward, and that the Master you are serving is Christ.

1 Corinthians 8:6
King James Bible
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Romans 6:23

1st Peter 3:15

1 Corinthians 6:11

2nd Thessalonians 1:8

2 Corinthians 1:3

 

[Longfellow]

1 Timothy 2:5
Berean Standard Bible
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Acts 20:35
King James Bible
I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Here it says to remember His words. In another place, He Himself says to remember His words, and do them.

Colossians 3:24
New Living Translation
Remember that the Lord will give you an inheritance as your reward, and that the Master you are serving is Christ.

This looks to me like saying that He is someone for us to serve.

Are you interested in anything that I said in my first two posts in this thread?

 

[Longfellow]

1 Timothy 2:5
Berean Standard Bible
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Acts 20:35
King James Bible
I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Colossians 3:24
New Living Translation
Remember that the Lord will give you an inheritance as your reward, and that the Master you are serving is Christ.

1 Corinthians 8:6
King James Bible
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Romans 6:23

1st Peter 3:15

1 Corinthians 6:11

2nd Thessalonians 1:8

2 Corinthians 1:3

My reason for starting this thread was two concerns of mine:
1. I think that Christians arguing and debating online about doctrinal issues hides from people what I think Jesus most wants people to know, and sometimes even repels people away from learning about it.
2. I see some of it as a sign and symptom of people being psychologically subjugated for marketing and fundraising purposes.

One of my thoughts about what to do is to make it clear what people agree about who believe in Jesus as their Master and Lord as in John 13:13. Not saying that what we disagree about doesn't matter, but that people also need to know what we agree about, because that might help attract them to learn more about it from Jesus Himself, for Him to teach them whatever He wants them to know.

Do you have any thoughts about any of that?

 

[walter]

My reason for starting this thread was two concerns of mine:
1. I think that Christians arguing and debating online about doctrinal issues hides from people what I think Jesus most wants people to know, and sometimes even repels people away from learning about it.
2. I see some of it as a sign and symptom of people being psychologically subjugated for marketing and fundraising purposes.

One of my thoughts about what to do is to make it clear what people agree about who believe in Jesus as their Master and Lord as in John 13:13. Not saying that what we disagree about doesn't matter, but that people also need to know what we agree about, because that might help attract them to learn more about it from Jesus Himself, for Him to teach them whatever He wants them to know.

Do you have any thoughts about any of that?

I thought you would like these scriptures because they refer to Jesus as Master and Lord.

I guess I don't understand what you're looking for?

 

[Longfellow]

I thought you would like these scriptures because they refer to Jesus as Master and Lord.

I guess I don't understand what you're looking for?

I'm asking if you have any thoughts about what I said in my post that you quoted. If you don't, that's okay.

I don't know any better way to say what I'm looking for than what I said in that post, and my first two posts in this thread.

 

[Thomas]

One of my concerns is that I think that it hides from people what I think Jesus most wants people to know...

What is it that you think Jesus most wants people to know?

 

[Longfellow]

What is it that you think Jesus most wants people to know?

That will certainly lead into discussions about our disagreements, which is exactly what I do not want to do in this thread. I'm not trying to tell anyone else what to do, but that is exactly what I will not do in this thread, myself.

(later) But I almost fell for it.

(later) But I'll discuss that with you somewhere else if you want to.

 

[Longfellow]

I thought you would like these scriptures because they refer to Jesus as Master and Lord.

I guess I don't understand what you're looking for?

Maybe it will help if I can give some examples of what I'm looking for:
"One thing that we could try doing about debating between Christians getting in the way of people knowing Jesus is ..."
"Maybe one thing that all of us agree about who believe that Jesus is our Master and Lord is ..."
"Maybe one thing that we could do about people being psychologically subjugated by people selling stories about God and Jesus is ..."
"Maybe one thing that all of us could work on together who believe that Jesus is our Master and Lord is ..."