The word of God

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okieinexile

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The word of God

By Bobby Winters

I grew up in a church other than the United Methodist, and, every summer when I went to Vacation Bible School, I stood with the rest of the kids and said the Pledge of Allegiance to the Bible. This might sound strange to Methodist ears, but it goes like this:

I pledge allegiance to the Bible, God's Holy Word, I will make it a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path and will hide its words in my heart that I might not sin against God.

Hearing these words echo in my brain as I read them to myself brings back memories of making wicker baskets, eating ice cream, and doing all of the activities we did at VBS. There is no nobler activity than teaching children about Jesus.

Yet from a distance of thirty years, I look at the Pledge of Allegiance to the Bible, and I have big problems with it. It’s not that I don’t like the Bible. In fact, I love it. The Bible is a key tool in spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ and making disciples for him, which is our business in the church.
However, the Bible has a proper place within the church and that place is not as an object for worship.

When Moses when up Mount Sinai and received the Law from God, he came down to find his people were worshiping a golden calf. This is something we easily recognize that as idolatry because the people were worshiping an inanimate object rather than the living God. In spite of the fact the Bible is sacred to us, those who worship it are no less idolaters than those who bended their knees before the golden calf.

In the Pledge to the Bible, there are two problems right at the beginning: First in pledging our allegiance to the Bible and second in saying that it is the word of God. After that, everything is okay as it is simply a fragment of the 119th Psalm.

The fact that I say that the Bible is not the word of God will make some of you arch your eyebrows if not clench your teeth, so I had better explain what I mean. After all, many times when I read scripture before a church, I say, “The word of God for the people of God, thanks be to God,” and I believe that is truth. This is because when I say this, I am not referring to the Bible itself but to the wisdom I have read from it.


This is what our fathers and mothers in the faith meant when they referred to the word of God. For example, if you look at the book of 1 Chronicles, chapter 17, verse 4, it says “the word of God came to Nathan in the night.” This doesn’t refer to the Bible or anything written in it. Instead, it refers to God’s holy wisdom.


In preparation for this essay, I did a computer search of the King James Version of the Bible looking for the places where the phrase “the word of God” occurs, and every occurrence refers to God’s wisdom rather than the Bible or even a portion of the Bible.

This is an easy argument to make because the Bible as we know it did not come into being until the 4th century. Our forebears had scrolls they held in high esteem, and when we see these referred to in the Bible, it is as “the scriptures.” In John, chapter 10, verse 35, Jesus refers to the scripture and the word of God separately. This would imply that Jesus thought of the two as being different things.

The Bible is our scripture, and Jesus did hold the scripture in high esteem. He didn’t worship it, and he didn’t ignore it, but he revered it for its wisdom.
The Bible should hold a prominent place in our worship, but it shouldn’t hold the preeminent place. And it certainly shouldn’t be an object for worship.
This having been said, what is its place?

Whenever we recite the Apostle’s Creed, we say we believe in “the communion of Saints.” The Bible, as it reaches into the past, is one of the means by which we may commune with the Saints. The Bible is filled with the experiences of those who have walked with God centuries before we came along and their reactions to him. They’ve left a record of their feelings and their thoughts, and it’s written in the Bible.

Another means of communing with the Saints is tradition. Wesleyan theology teaches us that tradition, along with experience and reason, provides us with a means of interpreting scripture. With tradition, experience, and reason in our arsenal, we have powerful tools for the study of the Bible and putting it in its proper place.

(Bobby Winters is a professor of mathematics, writer, and speaker. You may contact him at bobby@okieinexile.com and visit his website at www.okieinexile.com. There you will find links where you may buy his new book Confessions of an Ice Cream Socialist.)
 
Interesting commentary - nice take on "word of God" as equivalent to "wisdom of God" for the Bible. :)
 
Dear Okieinexile,

Very nice. :) I've been thinking about these same things a lot lately. The Bible points to God but it is not God. The recipie of scripture, tradition and reason is a good one, I think.

Thank you,
lunamoth
 
Yah. It was a nice writing. I said that pledge every year at VBS also. I do believe it is Gods Holy Word as in written word for the people of God. I certainly do not worship it, but I do see it as wisdom of God through the ages. I even see His plan for man, for what He would want us to know in our dispensation. It shows me THEN and NOW. I do hold it above any other text, not that other texts cannot be supported with it, for it and by it, but it has given me strength and wisdom and has been a light unto my path, a lamp unto my feet and I do indeed hide its words in my heart that I might not sin against God.
If I lived in Japan, I most likely would not be saying a pledge to the American flag. So it is for like you mention, for the people of God.
I never considered a pledge as worship, but more like a salute of loyalty and commitment.
Another pledge I hold fast to is to the Christian flag. Another one from VBS;)
The flag is flown outside my house on a 20' flag pole every year for two weeks from around palm sunday until after Easter. I feel proud and honored to do this, just as honored as I am to fly the Stars and Stripes.

You did throw me off for a second Okie, but I think that is what you intended to do, to get the message across.:)
The Lord bless and keep you.
 
Dear Okie

Interesting article yes and I agree with most.

"and Jesus did hold the scripture in high esteem"

Can you back up this statement?

In the Essene Gospels Jesus states that scripture is dead and that the word of GOD is found in the living GOD in your heart.

The Saints are otherwise known as the Ascended Masters that commune with us directly from the ascended spirit realm. You will not find teachings from St Francis of Assisi or Mother Mary in the bible although I am positive that when on earth St Francis gained much wisdom and guidance from the bible.

I have been thinking a lot about revelation and the bible prophets a lot these last few weeks and I realise how difficult it is for those that do not communicte with the spiritual realms to truly understand how it really all works. I am not sure whether this is the right thread for this but seems appropriate this time.

One can receive prophecy and or messages but yet it is not always appropriate to deliver those messages until one is given a green light. For instance in 2000 two ladies were taken into and out of altered state for ten days and received information for humanity but when the spirit was questioned on delivery the ladies were told the light workers will not be ready to hear this information until 2011 at the earliest.

It seems to me that some biblical prophets may have been inexperienced on communicating with the spiritual realms and as such would interpret what was received instead of provide word for word as is. From my own experience of guiding others who receive messages it is clear to me that people often jump to wrong conclusions or understanding of the message received, we have a rule in spiritualism whereby we ask the spirit realms to provide the message three times to ensure that action must be taken. And I have learnt the hard way to wait for the green light to proceed.

I have also recognised that some of the words of GOD are given for a particular time span to resolve a particular problem targetting a specific audience. Not necessarily for here and forever after. So it does concern me about the validity of experience of some of the bibilical prophets, some messgages can be so cryptic and some profound and sublime but yet if others interpret the message incorrectly it can be completely misconstrued, twisted and misunderstood.

For instance the vision I was shown of the 'Tree of Life' dying and the clarity that GOD gave is for now, it is what humanity faces ecologically now and I hope to GOD will not be appropriate in ten years from now.

I guess if I wish to check out the professionalism of the biblical prophets and their integrity of understanding spirit and the way spirit works I might have to find a biblical scholar that as carried out solid research on the history, training and lives of the prophets.


Do you have any recommendations?


For instance a spiritualist church medium in the past would have trained for up to eleven years to be able to communicate effectively with the spiritual realms and to do GOD's work.

being love

Kim xx
 
I think you're somehow out of mainstream Christian belief on referencing the Essenes, and attributing un-named characters in their writings directly as Jesus. :)
 
Dear Brian

Well many liberal Christians embrace the teachings of Essenes and also view the overlap in sayings in the bible because many are repeated.

This is an interesting quote from John 5 NIV

39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

So is Jesus not inferring the same thing here? It is not through the scriptures but through him and his way that you gain life?

41 “I do not accept praise from men, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?

45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.

"and attributing un-named characters in their writings directly as Jesus"

Please explian?

Okie is referring to the Saints, perhaps Okie could list some of the saints he is referring to?

Many thanks

Kim xx
 
Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of GOD. 28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love GOD, to them who are called according to his purpose. 29: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son. That he might be the first born among many breathen. 30: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31: What shall we say to things? If GOD be for US, who can be against us?
 
Jesus the Way

Jesus the way

17 If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. John 7:17 NIV

Jesus himself was a proclaimer of liberation. Far from believing that truth was oppressive, he promised.

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31-32 and made good his promise in the lives of the marginalized and disempowered of his day.


The Life


John 14

Jesus Comforts His Disciples

1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.

He does not say trust the scripture.


2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

The way to the place where he is going can be understood as the road of salvation the pathway to ascension. Jesus was teaching the disciples the way......

Jesus the Way to the Father

5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would knowmy Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?

The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever–

17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Now he tells us that the spirit of truth is within us.

18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.

20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

22Then Judas said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

and GOD does send the Holy Spirit to guide us and teach us and some of these are saints and the people I have mentioned above.

27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me,

31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

“Come now; let us leave.
 
What on earth are you talking about, SacredStar??

Okie puts up writings and we can discuss them - but you are essentially throwing the Bible at this thread and demanding we take your points as, um, gospel. This isn't the spirit of CR, and not the spirit of this individual board.

If you have a point in the above three post, please take it up on a specific discussion board where we can examine the points in question. Otherwise please avoid quoting the NT at me, because it looks like a form of witnessing and I don't appreciate that.
 
SacredStar,

I appreciate your interest in my piece. I've not the time to reply to you in detail, but I will support my claim that Jesus held scriptures in high esteem.

Matthew 21
42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone[a]; the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

Matthew 22
" 29Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. "


Mark 14
" 48“Am I leading a rebellion,” said Jesus, “that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? 49Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled.” 50Then everyone deserted him and fled. "

Luke 24
"31Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
 
One of my favorites is when he read from the book of Isaiah;)

Luke4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Is61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
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2Tim3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Acts17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Romans15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
 
Dear Okie

And a wonderful piece it is too....I think you will find that Jesus was not being very kind about the scriptures here is the full statement in context.

Matthew 21:40-45 NIV

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

He asks the question is it marvelous?

43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

44 He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.”

So here is he not telling them the scriptures will do them harm?

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them.

Dear Brian

Apologies I have been in communion with GOD these couple of days, so my hand as been moved and heart compelled. I will avoid the forums during these times.

being love

kimxx
 
Dear Okie

And a wonderful piece it is too....I think you will find that Jesus was not being very kind about the scriptures here is the full statement in context.

Matthew 21:40-45 NIV

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

He asks the question is it marvelous?

43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

44 He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.”

So here is he not telling them the scriptures will do them harm?

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them.

Dear Brian

Apologies I have been in communion with GOD these couple of days, so my hand as been moved and heart compelled. I will avoid the forums during these times.

being love

kimxx
 
Sacredstar said:
Dear Brian

Apologies I have been in communion with GOD these couple of days, so my hand as been moved and heart compelled. I will avoid the forums during these times.

being love

kimxx
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Yes, I remember what that feels like - but it's just a case of also remembering that there is a social group here, and if anyone comes in here too sure that their subjective opinion is an objective one, they are always in danger of coming across as closed-minded fundalmentalists. :)
 
Dear Brian

Totally agree thank you for your understanding.

Love and Hugs

kim xx
 
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