Sex, Marriage and Biblical Prohibition

[bruceg]

Sex, Marriage & Biblical Prohibition

be careful.

A good question, though - *is* there a biblical prohibition of sex outside of marriage? From the commandments, it's coveting your neighbors wife that's an issue - not wanting to do the horizontal mambo with the girl next door..

The rabbinical definition of bastardy, if I recall correctly, is a child of a union that is not permitted by law - so a kid out of wedlock isn't a bastard...

May be better off in a new thread, though - this title is misleading (and inflammatory).

 

[Quahom1]

Re: Sex, Marriage & Biblical Prohibition

A good question, though - *is* there a biblical prohibition of sex outside of marriage? From the commandments, it's coveting your neighbors wife that's an issue - not wanting to do the horizontal mambo with the girl next door..

The rabbinical definition of bastardy, if I recall correctly, is a child of a union that is not permitted by law - so a kid out of wedlock isn't a bastard...

May be better off in a new thread, though - this title is misleading (and inflammatory).

Well the only thing I can find is not commiting adultery. However that is the english wording. The original concept seems to have a different meaning of sorts in the OT. In the NT, Jesus did say if one even looks at another with desire, that was adultery in one's heart. Probably because within one's mind begins the potential for reality?

And your right. Things are getting a little hot around here...

v/r

Q

 

[Faithfulservant]

SEXUAL ADULTERY -- "Conjugal infidelity. An adulterer was a man who had sexual intercourse with a woman he was not married to, either a married woman or one who was engaged to be married. A woman who did the same thing was an adulteress. Adultery is fornication. The Bible regards adultery as a great sin and a great social wrong.

Adultery without sexual intercourse -- Jesus Christ warned, "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart." As with the breaking of any of the Ten Commandments, those who are not washed in the blood of Jesus Christ will have to pay the penalty. They will not enter the Kingdom of God. Punishment for transgression of this Commandment is the death penalty.

I think fornication is the word we are looking for

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 & 1 Corinthians 7:1-2
"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

1 Thess 4:3-5 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God;

 

[truthseeker]

Re: Sex, Marriage & Biblical Prohibition

The rabbinical definition of bastardy, if I recall correctly, is a child of a union that is not permitted by law - so a kid out of wedlock isn't a bastard...

Marriage is a union recognized by law. If the union hasn't been recognized, then it hasn't been permitted. The kid would, then, be a bastard.

 

[bruceg]

Re: Sex, Marriage & Biblical Prohibition

Actually, no. A bastard can only arise if the parents are legally *unable* to marry - not merely that they are not married to each other. There's a heck of a difference between "not permitted" and something that hasn't happened.

 

[truthseeker]

So that would mean that a child resulting from an extramarital affair would be a bastard versus a child who just doesn't have the father's last name.

 

[Abogado del Diablo]

I think fornication is the word we are looking for

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 & 1 Corinthians 7:1-2

The word tranlated in these passages as "fornication" is porneiða which my Strong's reports as meaning "harlotry" (prostitution), including "adultery" and "incest," and gives the figurative meaning of "idolatry" (which is related to "prostitution", in a figurative sense).

 

[lunamoth]

Adultery without sexual intercourse -- Jesus Christ warned, "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart." As with the breaking of any of the Ten Commandments, those who are not washed in the blood of Jesus Christ will have to pay the penalty. They will not enter the Kingdom of God. Punishment for transgression of this Commandment is the death penalty.

Dear Faithfulservant, please show me where Jesus commands the death penalty.

lunamoth

 

[Bandit]

1608 ekporneuo ek-porn-yoo'-o from 1537 and 4203; to be utterly unchaste:--give self over to fornication. 4202 porneia por-ni'-ah from 4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry:--fornication. 4203 porneuo porn-yoo'-o from 4204; to act the harlot, i.e. (literally) indulge unlawful lust (of either sex), or (figuratively) practise idolatry:--commit (fornication).

4204 porne por'-nay feminine of 4205; a strumpet; figuratively, an idolater:--harlot, whore. 4205 pornos por'-nos from pernemi (to sell; akin to the base of 4097); a (male) prostitute (as venal), i.e. (by analogy) a debauchee (libertine):--fornicator, whoremonger.


it is in there about 40 times so I dont think it is something God wants us to get caught up in because people get into problems when they sleep around with too many people. It is supposed to be for marriage, but I know not everyone believes that any more.
Prostitutes were stoned for it. There is more than one way to get into it.
It is in the OT also.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Dear Faithfulservant, please show me where Jesus commands the death penalty.

lunamoth

?? You lost me on that one Luna.. according to the bible.. without Jesus we are all under a death penalty .

 

[Faithfulservant]

The word tranlated in these passages as "fornication" is porneiða which my Strong's reports as meaning "harlotry" (prostitution), including "adultery" and "incest," and gives the figurative meaning of "idolatry" (which is related to "prostitution", in a figurative sense).

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

porneiva = Porneia (4202)

illicit sexual intercourse

1. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
2. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
3. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1Co 5:1[/font] [font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. [/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1Co 6:13[/font] [font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. [/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1Co 6:18[/font] [font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. [/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1Co 7:2[/font] [font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. [/font]

porneuvw = Porneuo (4203)

1.to prostitute one's body to the lust of another

2.to give one's self to unlawful sexual intercourse

a.to commit fornication

1 Cor 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commit teth fornication sinneth against his own body.


Merriam-Webster definitions

fornication
: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other -- compare [size=-1]ADULTERY[/size]

Adultery
: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband; also : an act of adultery


*shrug* not sure why we are suddenly on a definitions kick but theres what my resources say.

 

[iBrian]

Well, if nothing else, I figure "pornieva" is where the word "porn" originates in English.

 

[lunamoth]

Adultery without sexual intercourse -- Jesus Christ warned, "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart." As with the breaking of any of the Ten Commandments, those who are not washed in the blood of Jesus Christ will have to pay the penalty. They will not enter the Kingdom of God. Punishment for transgression of this Commandment is the death penalty.
[/b]

Hi Faithfulservant, In your paragraph above you say that the penalty for transgression of the commandment (adultery, in this case) is the death penalty. I'm just wondering where this is said in the Bible (NT, since we are talking aobut Jesus). Clearly we do not kill people who take the Lord's name in vain, do not keep the Sabbath, commit adultery, covet they neighbor's stuff, etc. I have never heard this said before, or perhaps I am being too literal in understanding your paragraph.

peace,
lunamoth

 

[Abogado del Diablo]

Well, if nothing else, I figure "pornieva" is where the word "porn" originates in English.

It does. The reason for my posting Strong's definition is that the discussion took a sharp turn toward the meaning of one Greek word. Whenever that happens, and if I'm at home where I can look it up, I always try to put some persepective on the meaning of the word to aid the discussion.

 

[JJM]

If I remember correctly, this thread spawned from the Should the Catholic church just Die Quietly? thread. So I was wondering if it would be ok if I gave the Catholic Church's perspective. It is more logical than Biblical so I thought I should ask first rather than hijack the thread. Although I think there is plenty of support from Paul’s writings to argue against premarital sex.

 

[Quahom1]

If I remember correctly, this thread spawned from the Should the Catholic church just Die Quietly? thread. So I was wondering if it would be ok if I gave the Catholic Church's perspective. It is more logical than Biblical so I thought I should ask first rather than hijack the thread. Although I think there is plenty of support from Paul’s writings to argue against premarital sex.

Please continue...

v/r

Q

 

[Faithfulservant]

Hi Faithfulservant, In your paragraph above you say that the penalty for transgression of the commandment (adultery, in this case) is the death penalty. I'm just wondering where this is said in the Bible (NT, since we are talking aobut Jesus). Clearly we do not kill people who take the Lord's name in vain, do not keep the Sabbath, commit adultery, covet they neighbor's stuff, etc. I have never heard this said before, or perhaps I am being too literal in understanding your paragraph.

peace,
lunamoth

Like I said earlier.. without Jesus Christ we are all under a death penalty for any sin we commit makes us unworthy for the kingdom of heaven. I'm not sure what else to say other than quoting these scriptures.

If you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Savior you are under the law...

Leviticus 20:10 The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Romans 5:21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

Romans 7:7-13 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


and finally

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 8:51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."

Im still not sure what the issue is.. I never said that Jesus commanded the death penalty.. I said that if you are not washed in the blood of Christ.. or if you arent saved you are under the law.. Jesus is the NT.. the law is the OT. Hmm ... the topic is sex marriage and biblical prohibition.. sorry had to double check to make sure I wasnt posting on a different thread... Think our communication lines are crossed luna.

 

[JJM]

Alright I’m goona attempt to explain my understanding of the Church’s teaching on premarital sex, homosexuality, and contraception. It comes down to the fact that sex outside of marriage and out of the natural design of God in regards to the openness to children is selfish and in some sense idolatrous. There are two ways to go about explaining this but they kind of over lap and both come to the same conclusion. I’ll start with the less theological one. In order to understand sexuality we have to look at the underlying purpose of sex. That underlying purpose is to have children. Now understanding this we can look at the purpose of sexual pleasure. Its purpose is to bring the Mother and the Father of the Child closer together in order to be better Parents to the child, which they are conceiving. To have sex in which the natural openness to a child is prohibited or simply for the sake of sexual pleasure without wanting to be united to the partner is to take what you want from sex rather than what God meant for sex to be and this is in essence selfish and is the worship of sexual pleasure and ones own wants and needs. Now this handles Contraception and Homosexuality but it doesn’t directly say anything about premarital sex. The reason Premarital sex is wrong is that two people shouldn’t come together to create another person until they are one. And they shouldn’t be having sex without an openness to a child. However the better explanation of why this is so is the second way of looking at it and this second way also contains another way of looking at the Homosexuality and contraception. This involves our understanding of the Trinity. Now we have to realize that while it seems as if I’m saying the third person of the trinity is being created in actuality he is being begotten. They aren’t created because all three of them are outside of time, eternal, and infinite. But anyway here I Go. In our understanding God the Father is the Lover and Jesus Christ is the Beloved. The Father Loves Christ, and Christ returns that Love. And that Love between those Two Persons is so strong that it is in itself is a third person. That is the Holy Spirit. In the same way a husband gives himself to his Wife and the wife Returns his love and that love is so great it creates a third person which is the embodiment of that love. This is one of the greatest gifts God has given us because it is at this point that in sex that we can understand the Trinity more than at any other point in our lives. This is why a man and a woman should be one through marriage before they have sex, because the Father and the Son are one and this also gives another aspect of Contraception and Homosexuality because both of those are essentially, through this mystery, Sacrilegious and Blasphemous because they Remove the Third Person from the Trinity Thus profaning This beautiful mystery which God has given to us and They are blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Does all this make sense? If anyone needs any clarification just say something.

 

[Kaldayen]

Now understanding this we can look at the purpose of sexual pleasure. Its purpose is to bring the Mother and the Father of the Child closer together in order to be better Parents to the child, which they are conceiving.

I'm wondering : does the bible really speaks of the point of sexual pleasure or is that an interpretation?
___
Kal

 

[Bandit]

ok, this is how my dad explained it.with his finger in my face..."Son, you will not bring shame to this family!"

this is how mom explained it.
"It is for marriage & to have children & after that you forget about it."

so there are two more versions to consider.