something i have been thinking about

Chezz

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peace be to you!,

it says in many scriptures that swine is not to be eaten, i have been wondering for many years and have lately starting thinking, that the pig is very close in anatomy to humans, we can today succsefully garft pig oragans into out body as well as blood. also pigs can get the same kinds of cancer and skin cancer as us and they have allmost the same skin.
can it be possible the one time many years ago pig were acutally equal with human beings , not exactly the "missing link" but once walked among hums and are realated to us?


can anyone help me further reasearch this topic via this thread?
 
I can't help but remember a series of dreams I had many years ago, which seemed to involve being on an alien world, inhabited by "angelic" beings of sorts, significantly different to humans in many ways. I once asked what they were descended from, and they revealed to me a pig...

Ever since then, this entire issue of Jewish (and later Muslim) proscription from eating from the pig has really piqued my curiousity - whilst the traditional answer is that pigs behave in unclean ways, I have difficult understanding how the pig is significantly more dirty than any other grazing animal, that spends its life close to mud.

I keep wondering if perhaps pigs may have a more hidden meaning in Kabbalah and Jewish mysticism, and I am reminded of the animal imagery used in conjunction with angelic beings, such as in Ezekiel and Revelations - the re-occuring Cherubim figure who has four faces - lion, eagle, bull - and one face that is somehow like a man, yet isn't.

Of course, the cherubim descriptions state a relationship between angels and animals that is open to all sorts of interpretations, from the theological, anthropological, comparative and historical.

However, I can't help but wonder at the suggestion from this that, perhaps, across the stars, there are only a select group of animal "types" that can ever evolve into sentient form (and perhaps even evolve into such spiritually evolved forms as to be called "angelic"). And that of these animal "types", the nearest equivalents of three of them on our planet include the eagle, bull, and lion.

However, perhaps the fourth type that becomes "man-like" can evolve from different species types, of which the ape took the lead on earth, but that on other worlds - where conditions are perhaps very different - other animals, such as an equivalent to the pig, may have the evolutionary advantage and thus evolve into a sentient form equivalent to human.

What I especially found interesting about the dreams I had is that there were other details I was able to pull from them, that later corroborated - such as that in the dream, the planet was especially bathed in Ultra-Violet light which would be ordinarily dangerous to any type of human skin. Funny that pig skin is very resistant to UV damage.

Perhaps somewhere out there, among the billions of stars, on worlds with particularly dangerous concentrations of Ultra-violet radiation, the pig is one of the few animals that evolution can shape towards sentient form. :)

As for why the eating of the pig should be forbidden - not entirely sure. As before, I keep wondering if there's a comment in Kabbalah somewhere (perhaps regarded as somewhat odd or heretical) that pigs, rather than being unclean, need to be avoided for their angelic association. That would help tally the overall concept here with other concepts, such as impact of Vedic worship of cows in India, for example. And also Ancient Egypt managed to dedicate an entire city to the cat, of which the passive form was Bastet, but the aggressive form was the lioness Sekhmet. Interesting that Sekhmet is very much related to Hathor, the beautiful female-cow goddess of Ancient Egypt.
 
yes, it is fascinating, perhaps even that "they behave in unclean ways" could of once meant that they were seen as an enemy to the human-race because allthough pigs can devour a human body(if u starve them enough) and they do look like they are dirty they actually are quit clean they make 2 corners of there pen one for deposting, and one that they eat in , there are for sure dirtier animals.

it is possible that many mellenia ago we killed of the more superior race and later started to farm pigs and such.

this topic is very intriuing for me, im going too look for some sort of a geneology chart of pigs anotomoy and humans.
i have observed a pig disection in science class and they are very similar in anatomy to us.
 
I said:
I can't help but remember a series of dreams I had many years ago, which seemed to involve being on an alien world, inhabited by "angelic" beings of sorts, significantly different to humans in many ways. I once asked what they were descended from, and they revealed to me a pig...

Ever since then, this entire issue of Jewish (and later Muslim) proscription from eating from the pig has really piqued my curiousity - whilst the traditional...
I have never had dreams like that but know that some people have. (alien/angels/ultraviloet- a different world).
I find it interesting what you say about what is revealed to you about them being descended from a pig. For me, I would see that more as in TYPE & not literal.

Peters dream about the net from heaven that gathered all the animals is something else to think about. I think it was a dream refering to people & not eating animals, making his debut & acceptance with salvation unto the gentiles.:)
Now, I dont think animals & humans are related that way, as in offspring.

I have always seen the unclean to eat as the same as unhealthy to eat. Similiar to shell fish. Possibly the fat & cholesterol & things like that.
Not necessarliy as in dirt & mud or what the animal eats & how animals live.
 
Well, since we share a LOT of DNA with most of the mammals on the planet in varying degrees, one could argue relatedness ;-) I think we're still closest percentage wise to monkeys and apes, but the pig descent is an interesting sideline.

The best argument I saw for why pigs are not kosher was in one of the Jonathan Kellerman Rabbi Small books (don't remember which) where the rabbi was challenged as to why and his response is that pigs are the only farm animal merely used as food, and that is disrespectful to the life they have to use it only as food.

... Bruce
 
Perhaps some observant prophet or priest noticed at some point in time, that people who ate pork had more illness (trichinosis, tapeworms etc.) than those who didn't eat the stuff. Then decided that a prohibition was in order, hence the ban on pork. I think that common sense and keen observation, as well as personal prejudice etc. had as much to do with the establishment of religious law as did anything else.
 
They were shepherd, they raised sheep & the people in towns raised pigs, it was a way to keep the people separated. If they could not break bread together they could not make treaties or trade. It was a way to keep the people separate. A friend of mine that is Jewish told me about a Rabbi at a school that studied history & that is he said He hear this from. I have another friend from Algeria that is Muslim & when he was in China he had to find a area that was Muslim because he could not eat just anywhere! My friend from Algeria made me believe what my friend said about keeping them separate because you could not invite him to a cookout or just go to any restaurant not just because he could not eat pork but the meat had to be killed in the proper manner. Normally it left him eating alone.:(


Pigs were feed poorly but most of the problems were the sewer & drinking water was the same steam that ran through the middle of the village. Even today the pork is given better feed & you do not have to worry about the meat going bad like you do with chicken, because chickens are stuck in cages & they go the bathroom over the food they eat.:eek: If you ever see how they raise chickens you might not want to eat it any more.



They can not eat shellfish, which means no lobsters!:(



Some scientist wants to change the Chimpanzee to a Homo species because they are the closes to us from the DNA studies. In a group of Chimpanzees the leader does not groom any of the other chimps but when one dies the leader is the only one to groom the one that died. Chimps do hunt together & uses tools. One group uses rocks to break nuts open & a group in a different area will use only pieces of wood even if rocks are around, sounds like a cultural difference. Might have got off track but I find this very interesting, maybe this should be posted on its own tread?:confused:




Mathghamhain
 
About two months ago, my sister was diagnosed with neurocystisercosis (sp?) http://www.emedicine.com/neuro/topic629.htm most commonly associated with eating pork...which she doesn't...but, you can also get it from veggies if the water being used to grow the veggies is contaminated. It was caught very early on, so her chances of 100% recovery are extremely good...but, although it is expected that all parasytes are now dead (we won't know for another month, when she gets her next CAT Scan), she has lesions and those could still cause seizures...
 
miclason said:
About two months ago, my sister was diagnosed with neurocystisercosis (sp?) http://www.emedicine.com/neuro/topic629.htm most commonly associated with eating pork...which she doesn't...but, you can also get it from veggies if the water being used to grow the veggies is contaminated. It was caught very early on, so her chances of 100% recovery are extremely good...but, although it is expected that all parasytes are now dead (we won't know for another month, when she gets her next CAT Scan), she has lesions and those could still cause seizures...


There is a pig farm in our area...and the guy has a tanker of sorts in which he mixes the pig manure with water from a local stream, and then spreads it on his fields, the final product be it feed for cattle or "veggies" goes to feed humans. Sorry about your sister and hope she continues to improve...so much for eating raw veggies...we cook everything we eat.
 
I think God told Jews not to eat pork because... they eat thier own feacies(sp) and can cause extreme illness! And as for the pigs being close to humans, it seems like a pretty reasonable conclusion but there is only one hole in it, im not saying that i agree or disagree with you (because to tell the truth i don't know) but, God never said that the jews could not eat apes which are also very close to us, physiologicaly(sp).
 
Brian has an interesting take on the intelligence and closeness of porcines and humans (however, a horse and human has a closer skeletal structure, as well as muscle and sweat glands). Wakiza is right on the money as far as the deseases that pigs used to carry. In undeveloped countries those deseases still abound in porcine herds, which is why pork has to be cooked until nearly tough and dry as leather, or salted and season until it stood up in the corner. The term "hacking a chaw of pork" wasn't used for giggles. Cooking pork in its own fat, raised the temperature to over 250-300*F...well above the point of boiling water. Cooking salted pork in water, guaranteed the water boiling at over 220*F (salt water boils at a higher temperature).

Recently (last 50 years or so), pork in America is clean enough to be cooked less thoroughly (say down to 160*F or so).

However it isn't only porcines that we were not to eat, is was also scavanging animals, reptilians, and crusteacens, and bottom feeding fish. All for the same reasons. As time went on, man learned to cook better, store food stuffs better, and let things go when they began to decay.

Case in point: I only recently learned to prepare, cook and eat Catfish. I always considered them "dirty", and for good reason. I didn't know how to clean the mud sack (mud vein) from the cavity without rupturing it, which spoiled the flesh. Now that I know how to remove this sack, I get to enjoy a very sweet tasting fish, with flakey and tender meat/flesh.

As Peter was told in his dream/vision, it isn't what we take into our bodies for food that is unclean, for what comes in through the mouth leaves through our system. It is what comes out of our hearts and from our mouth that can be unclean...

my thoughts.

v/r

Q
 
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