Upanishads Relation To The Vedas and Hindu's relation to Creation and Science

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Silverbackman

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Because the Vedas is so expensive to buy and actually find, let alone in good English, would the Upanishads be a good enough replacer for the Vedas? If I am correct the Upanishads are the commentaries of the Vedas, meaning it has basicly all the important aspects from the Vedas such as creation and all the metaphysical concepts as well as the "Eternal Truth" discussed in the Vedas, right?

Speaking of creation how does the Vedas explain how creation occured? I have read that Man existed since the begining of time, first creature of universe was brahma, he who created 8 million 400 thousand species including man, demi gods, prajapatis, gandharvas, absharas, and so on. So does this concept conflict with evolution and the facts that we evolved from a great ape? What is Hindu's stance on evolution and how is the universe according to Hinduism? Science estimates the world around 15 billion years old, can this work in hinduism? And what is the general Hindu notion of aliens?
 
Hi Silverbackman
I cannot help you with an explination of the Upanishads as I'm pretty much in the same boat as yourself. However on your second question I have a couple of translations from The Rig Veda on creation. As Sanskrit is very difficult to translate I’ve included two. Some great concepts here concidering the relative age of the stanza (2000bc?).

The Song of Creation

Then there was neither Aught nor Nought, no air nor sky beyond.

What covered all? Where rested all? In watery gulf profound?

Nor death was then, nor deathlessness, nor change of night and day.

That One breathed calmly, self-sustained; nought else beyond it lay.



Gloom hid in gloom existed first - one sea, eluding view.

That One, a void in chaos wrapt, by inward fervour grew.

Within it first arose desire, the primal germ of mind,

Which nothing with existence links, as sages searching find.



The kindling ray that shot across the dark and drear abyss-

Was it beneath? or high aloft? What bard can answer this?

There fecundating powers were found, and mighty forces strove-

A self-supporting mass beneath, and energy above.



Who knows, who ever told, from whence this vast creation rose?

No gods had then been born - who then can e'er the truth disclose?

Whence sprang this world, and whether framed by hand divine or no-

Its lord in heaven alone can tell, if even he can show.



n Anon. (The Rig Veda)

The Song of Creation

Then was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm
....of air, no sky beyond it.
What covered in, and where? and what gave shelter?
Was water there, unfathomed depth of water?
Death was not then, nor was there aught immortal: no sign
....was there, the day's and night's divider.
That one thing, breathless, breathed by its own nature:
....apart from it was nothing whatsoever.

Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness, this All
....was indiscriminated chaos.
All that existed then was void and formless: by the great
....power of warmth was born that unit.

Thereafter rose desire in the beginning. Desire, the primal
....seed and germ of spirit.
Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the
....existent's kinship in the non-existent.

Transversely was their severing line extended: what was
....above it then, and what below it?
There were begetters, there were mighty forces, free action
....here and energy up yonder.

Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it
....was born and whence comes this creation?


The gods are later than this world's production. Who
....knows, then, whence it first came into being?

He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all
....or did not form it,
Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily
....knows it, or perhaps he knows not.


Rig Veda, translation by F Max Muller.
 
Thanks for posting the hymn of creation, Redindica. I’ve also seen multiple versions of it. Here’s another hymn from the Rigveda dealing with creation that I found a while ago. It also brings out some very interesting concepts.

The Hymn of the Golden Germ
Rigveda Samhita X:121

In the beginning was Divinity in His entire splendor, manifested as the sole Lord of the land, the skies, water, space and that beneath, and He upheld the Earth and the heavens. Who is that Deity we shall worship with our offerings? ..1..

It is He who bestows soul-force and vigor, whose guidance all men invoke, the Devas invoke, whose shadow is immortal life and death. Who is that Deity we shall worship with our offerings? ..2..

It is He, who by His greatness, became the one King of the breathing and the seeing, who is the Lord of man, bird and beast. Who is that Deity we shall worship with our offerings? ..3..

It is He through whose glory the snow-clad mountains rose, and the ocean spread with the rivers, they say. His arms are the quarters of the sky. Who is that Deity we shall worship with our offerings? ..4..

It is He through whom the heaven is strong and the earth firm, who has steadied the light and the sky’s vault, and measured out the sphere of clouds in the mid-region. Who is that Deity we shall worship with our offering? ..5..

It is He to whom heaven and Earth, placed in the light by His grace, look up to; radiant with the mind while over them the rising Sun brightly shines. Who is that Deity we shall worship with our offerings? ..6..

When the mighty waters came, carrying the universal germ, producing the flame of life, then dwelt there in harmony the one Spirit of the Devas. Who is that Deity we shall worship with our offerings? ..7..

It is He who in His might surveyed the waters, conferring skill and creating worship – He, the God of the Devas, the One and only One. Who is that Deity we shall worship with our offerings? ..8..

Father of the world! May He not destroy us, who with Truth as His Law made the heavens and produced waters, vast and beautiful. Who is that Deity we shall worship with our offerings? ..9..

Lord of creation! No one other than Thee pervades all these forms that have come into being. May that be ours, for which our prayers rise, may we be masters of many treasures! ..10..
 
Hi Agnideva

Yes...your post highlights beautifully how God is almost unknowable. So much to read so little time!

Thank you for posting.
 
Silverbackman said:
If I am correct the Upanishads are the commentaries of the Vedas, meaning it has basicly all the important aspects from the Vedas such as creation and all the metaphysical concepts as well as the "Eternal Truth" discussed in the Vedas, right?
Click to expand...
Yes. Upanishads are philosophical and metaphysical commentaries on the Vedas. They contain many central concepts hidden within the hymn portions of the Vedas. There are 13 principal Upanishads and many others, but the principal ones are considered most important. I would look for translations that have commentaries. I’ve only read a few Upanishads, and they can be hard to understand by the translation alone.

I have read that Man existed since the begining of time, first creature of universe was brahma, he who created 8 million 400 thousand species including man, demi gods, prajapatis, gandharvas, absharas, and so on.
Click to expand...
Is this from a puranic text?

So does this concept conflict with evolution and the facts that we evolved from a great ape? What is Hindu's stance on evolution ...
Click to expand...
There is no official stance on evolution as far as I know. Some agree with it, some don’t. What are your views on this subject?

Science estimates the world around 15 billion years old, can this work in hinduism?
Click to expand...
Yes it can. According to Hindu cosmology, the time between first creation and cosmic dissolution is incredibly long, much longer than 15 billion years. In between, there are minor cycles of creation and dissolution also.

And what is the general Hindu notion of aliens?
Click to expand...
Aliens, eh? I don’t know much about the subject, but I did read on some websites that ancient texts of mythology speak of flying machines called vimanas. Some interpret the vimanas to be UFOs. I don’t know how seriously I would take that though :D.
 
TO SILVEACKMAN,

The Upanishads absolutely would not be a replacer for the Vedas. The Vedas are ecclesactical and are incanations, spells ceromonial rites, some philosophical thought, but not nearly to the point of the Upanishads. The Upanishads are considered the Vedanta, literally "the close to the Vedas", although there is a hint of pre-axial thought and the monism from the Vedas persists through to the Upanishads, the Upanishads have, if any, no dogma. The Upanishads literally translate to "sitting next to" and it is supposed to be that one is sitting next to a teacher. I can't emphasize enough that the Upanishads are not a replacement for the Vedas. The Vedas also come with the Brahmanas, which are instructions to the priests to help perform the incantations and ceremonies. The Vedas are competely pre-axial and totally filled with dogma. The Upanishads were written to reinforce the samsaric cycle that life is in its nature udesirable, equivalent to Dukkha in Buddhism, and one must overcome such an inevitabliity by experiencing moksha. The Vedas only state the beginning thoughts of reicarnation, but the Upanishads actually introduce the first "way to salvation," called the yoga-marga way, which requires one to become a sannyasin in order to achieve moksha, which didn't quite take off and two other ways procured after this. The reason I go on with this is because the Upanishads are away to salvation, philosohical preponderance on the methods of to salvation and realizing the samsara is a way of life that is irrefutable. The Vedas are philosophcially anticuated in comparision to the Upanishads.
 
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