Underlying order

[Katyana1980]

I've been thinking about science for a few years now since many of my friends are physicists (and some of them devout Christians, funnlily enough!).

I've learnt a small amount about nanophysics and particles. As far as I can understand it, the smallest level of understanding that humans have got to is that matter, light, energy etc. is all made up of protons and/or electrons. These are in turn made up of smaller units. Here is where it gets tricky. Some believe that these are little vibrating circles of energy vibrating at different speeds, other believe in string theory which means they are strands of energy - which apparently suggests bizarre physical possiblities. I don't know, I'm no scientist!

Anyway, if you take nature at any level - from the patterns in weather, to cell divisions, to the movement of these tiniest particules - it all suggests that behind everything is some kind of underlying order or pattern. All the rules of physics come down to this. I can't see how it could be totally random, as there is always cause and effect. So where does this pattern come from.

It's kind of linked to the butterfly effect - "a butterfly flaps its wings in a park and a hurricane starts in the pacific". There is one giant process of cause and effect going on. And something must have started it. Something must have given a little push. Prehaps before that there was perfect balance of energy and then there was the tiniest disturbance which started the whole thing off. I have this crazy idea that there is a mathematical pattern behind it all, and that if we could only measure eveything in the universe we'd be able to spot it.

Have you ever heard of the golden proportion? It's an old theory in art and theology. It's a ratio based on pi. It was used in the building of the pyramids, in the building of the panthenon, in the facade of notre dame. It's also evident in the human body when you compare the length of limbs and often occurs in nature. It is also used to mathematically draw a perfect spiral. I wonder whether this is linked.

Anyway, it's an idea that I have. A bit random, but something I think about and freak people out with!

 

[seattlegal]

Oh, do you mean Phi, the golden ratio, a.k.a. the golden mean?

 

[_Z_]

If seven is the number of endings…

There are eight notes in the octave, thus we can say it is a seven-fold number; it has seven different notes and the eighth is a harmonic of the first.



I know a little about phi, but there are other parallels to be found…

[I wont go into numerology – big topic by itself]



Numbers 1 & 7 on the periodic table = water [which is a harmony element as it lies between the acids and salts on the ph spectrum [or something like that]].

There are seven visible colours on the light spectrum [fades into 9 when infra red & ultra-violet are included – a threefold cycle [there are three primary colours that make up white], with green as centre harmonic.



I too have wondered what the source of all the logic is [& what lies beyond paradox]. It is easy to just say god, but it may be simpler than that e.g. first I begin with a void, then add ‘an aspect or element’ to it so as to find the simpler logic – it may be so that we are looking at multitudes of logic that point to something greater, yet this logic may operate by itself! E.g. if you have nothing, then add a point, then there are a whole host of principles, laws & events that must occur simply because there is nothing to stop them! Thus god may only have to create one thing in order to create the universe that would unfold ‘naturally’. Or if not god then perhaps if you begin with nothing then something must occur because there is nothing to stop it? Of course we are then left with the question:



What is the origin of law? Unless they are simply a result of events – but it seams one must have laws/principles before an event can happen [or ‘know what to do next’].



Interesting post!



Z

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,


the Chinese have a concept called "Li" which is often translated as "organic nature". what they mean with this term is to say that all of heaven and earth (metaphors for everything in the universe and the universe, itself) exhibits a pattern, however this patter is so large and subtle that our limited perspectives really cannot grasp or understand it. we can catch glimpses of it here and there.. they cite for examples the grain in wood, the sinew in muscle and the markings in jade.

metta,

~v

 

[wil]

the implicate order...the fibonacci sequence...string theory....quantum physics...

is it a wave or a particle? Is it all energy? All thought? All potential?

things naturally fall into order...or do we put them in order because that is the way we like them...maybe we don't like to think of things naturally falling into chaos.

quarks, nutrinos, we can only see as far out (in space) or as far in magnification as our current level of technology allows...things will continue to get smaller and further as our science 'improves'

We started creating elements on the periodic table long before we found them, or 'discovered' them...becuase we knew their potential existed...and then we found them...so which came first. The expectation of the scientist affects the outcome...even in double blind studies...so now they've gone to triple and quadruple to keep thought from interupting those building blocks of what is...

namaste,