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kvn_m

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No matter how much people put it, of one substance, of three entities... no matter how much the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one... they are not one.

God is love. Love must have the object of love. (something to that extend. assuming narcissicism isn't love).

God loves His Son and the Holy Spirit. God and His Son are not one. Therefore God can love His Son.

What's the definition of monotheistic religion and the definition of polytheistic religion again?

If Christianity's to be considered a monotheistic religion, is it because the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are of the same essence, in comparison to like let's say, Hindu, who have many gods and many different powers and essences?

No matter how much I look at it. I have a problem thinking that Christianity is a religion that worships only one God.

Hey, I mean, I'm a Christian. I'm a believer and all. But sometimes, there are really things that are somewhat difficult for me to perceive. I've no intentions for debate, just discussion. I really want to know about this.

Thanks to everyone who can contribute.
 
they are indeed one. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

We may see God and His great salvation in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, then experience their reality by faith, through the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit.

Jesus christ is the word of god, he is the beginning and the end, he is everlasting life. then being born of gods spirit and man into this world he is perfect and the son of god, yet he suffered and died like a man so that we could have salvation through his ultimate sacrifice and resurrection if we ask for his forgiveness. He that hath the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life.

just as jesus walked and talked with us when he was here, after he ascended back to heaven, he sent to us the holy spirit. In order for the Holy Spirit to teach us, guide us, and give assurance, we must walk by means of the Spirit; that is, be filled with the Spirit (Galatians 5:16).

to have a relationship with god (god the father, the son of god, and the holy spirit) is gods grace that he may reach us, communicate with us, comfort us, forgive us, so we may believe in him and be saved and have everlasting life in him.
 
kvn_m said:
No matter how much people put it, of one substance, of three entities... no matter how much the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one... they are not one.

God is love. Love must have the object of love. (something to that extend. assuming narcissicism isn't love).

God loves His Son and the Holy Spirit. God and His Son are not one. Therefore God can love His Son.

What's the definition of monotheistic religion and the definition of polytheistic religion again?

If Christianity's to be considered a monotheistic religion, is it because the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are of the same essence, in comparison to like let's say, Hindu, who have many gods and many different powers and essences?

No matter how much I look at it. I have a problem thinking that Christianity is a religion that worships only one God.

Hey, I mean, I'm a Christian. I'm a believer and all. But sometimes, there are really things that are somewhat difficult for me to perceive. I've no intentions for debate, just discussion. I really want to know about this.

Thanks to everyone who can contribute.
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yes you are right , the bible does not teach a three in one God , the bible teaches that the true God is Jehovah, psalm 83;18 (KJV)and Jesus christ is his only-begotten first born son . (John 3;16)and the holy spirit is Gods active force which is used to acomplish his purpose
—Ps. 104:30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts 4:31

 
the bible does teach a three in one God. from the word of god and creation in the old testament to its prophesies, to the fulfillment in the new testament, jesus is one with god, as well as the holy spirit from the beginning.

a high percentage if not all of christianity teach this as it comes from the bible. a low percentage, of what some people believe to be "cults" that resemble christianity teach otherwise. just for your information.
 
they cannot be one.

they are one in substance (they are God), but impossible to be absolute one like Son is in the Father or the Father is in the Son.

So if the Son is praying to the Father, the Son is talking to Himself?

What is trinity? Is it three in one, one in three, or three things in unity?
 
kvn_m said:
So if the Son is praying to the Father, the Son is talking to Himself?
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this is a different situation then the beginning of creation, before god sent jesus to us to be born on this earth among his people. so when jesus was born here he was tempted just as we are, and he prayed to god in heaven for strength. and if you know jesus, yes you know the father. and no one comes to the father but through him.
 
I think the trinity is definitely man made.. a very stretch of interpretation...and the doctrine of the trinity was ratified as the result of fisticuffs I believe.

Some stuff, when it is around for long enough and repeated often enough becomes gospel, as it were.

But the bigger concept is that we are all one. All connected all part and parcel of that omnipresent God, the same in you as in me. Jesus referring to he and the father as one, you and I as his brothers and sisters, he as the son of God, we as children of God, saying we are Gods and we can do what he did and more...

a=b=c all one. Makes it easy to be in his image when we are the same image...all earthly manifestations and expressions of spirit...all the leading edge of the ethers creating an impression on this level of reality..

the God/Christ in me salutes and appreciates the God/Christ in you...namaste,
 
here are a couple things, among many, that the bible says concerning this:

Prophecy: Isaiah 7:14c
"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel."

Fulfillment: John 12:45
"And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me." 1 Timothy 3:16
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."


~and~

Prophecy: Psalm 45:6-7b
"[size=-2] 6[/size] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [size=-2] 7[/size] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

Fulfillment: Hebrews 1:8-9
"[size=-2] 8[/size] But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. [size=-2] 9[/size] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
 
BlaznFattyz said:
the bible does teach a three in one God. from the word of god and creation in the old testament to its prophesies, to the fulfillment in the new testament, jesus is one with god, as well as the holy spirit from the beginning.

a high percentage if not all of christianity teach this as it comes from the bible. a low percentage, of what some people believe to be "cults" that resemble christianity teach otherwise. just for your information.
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being in unity with some one does not make us that person, Jesus was in unity with God regarding Gods purpose, the same way that we can be in unity with Jesus by listening to what he says and acting on it, just because the world in general get to believing manmade doctrines, does not make those manmade doctrines true . remember the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one satan the devil 1 John 5;19 and the wicked ones purpose is to be in oposition to God, so its best to stick to accurate bible teaching rather than be led along by manmade doctrines . do not think that there is safety in numbers
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ ........John 17;3

in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth....John 17;21

 
more prophecies and fulfillments. god has made the enemies his footstool and that every knee shall bow. jesus christ is Lord to be worshiped in heaven and on earth for god says it and has made him heir of all things, for all things are made through him. also, king david says it, john proclaims it, disciples spread this gospel, and the holy ghost teaches it as he fills the hearts of the prophets and those of us who seek this knowledge.

Psalms 110:1
1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Mark 12:36
36For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Acts 2:34-36
34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Hebrews 1:2,6,13
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
 
BlaznFattyz said:
more prophecies and fulfillments. god has made the enemies his footstool and that every knee shall bow. jesus christ is Lord to be worshiped in heaven and on earth for god says it and has made him heir of all things, for all things are made through him. also, king david says it, john proclaims it, disciples spread this gospel, and the holy ghost teaches it as he fills the hearts of the prophets and those of us who seek this knowledge.

Psalms 110:1
1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Mark 12:36
36For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Acts 2:34-36
34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Hebrews 1:2,6,13
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
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yes those verses are pertaining to Jesuschrist no doubt about that, Gods son has a lot to do with the true Gods purpose ,being the son of God he is the legal one to take up kingship of Gods heavenly kingdom goverment,annd that is what he has done in 1914 in the heavens there are many prophecies pertaining to Jesuschrist in the bible.
 
jesus is the word of god, the son of god, jesus is the creator, jesus is the light of the world, he is the savior, the lord of lords and king of kings, the alpha and the omega and through him all things are made and held together, and it is in his image that he created man. jesus is everlasting life and it is through him that one can be saved. for god has given him authority over all these things. i will list a prophecy and fulfillment regarding these things in isaiah and in john. john is lengthy but a definite must read to understand.

Prophecy:
Isaiah 48:16:​
[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica, Swiss, Sans Serif]"I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."
[/font]

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica, Swiss, Sans Serif]"For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; ...I am the Lord; and there is none else."
[/font]

​
Fulfillment:


John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

​
 
kvn_m said:
No matter how much people put it, of one substance, of three entities... no matter how much the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one... they are not one.

God is love. Love must have the object of love. (something to that extend. assuming narcissicism isn't love).

God loves His Son and the Holy Spirit. God and His Son are not one. Therefore God can love His Son.

What's the definition of monotheistic religion and the definition of polytheistic religion again?

If Christianity's to be considered a monotheistic religion, is it because the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are of the same essence, in comparison to like let's say, Hindu, who have many gods and many different powers and essences?

No matter how much I look at it. I have a problem thinking that Christianity is a religion that worships only one God.

Hey, I mean, I'm a Christian. I'm a believer and all. But sometimes, there are really things that are somewhat difficult for me to perceive. I've no intentions for debate, just discussion. I really want to know about this.

Thanks to everyone who can contribute.
Click to expand...

Perhaps an analogy might help here:

As as human being, we have three parts to us, we have a body (which allows us to interact in this plane of existence), we have a mind (which allows us to keep a personality and imagine far beyond this plane of existence), and we have a spirit (which is etheral and mysterious even to ourselves), yet we are one human being.

Jesus, is the body and blood that walked this plane of existance, The Father is the mind, and then there is the Holy Spirit which is etheral and mysterious, yet all are part of the One God.

The three cannot be seperated because they are part of eachother, and together they make up the whole.

Without Jesus, there would be no salvation, whithout the Holy Spirit there would be no grace, and without the Father, there would be nothing.

The Father imagined us, Jesus made us, and the Holy Spirit cares for us.

Hope this helps.

v/r

Q
 
With all due respect, I know that there's been countless attempts to use an analogy to describe trinity. All of which are flawed because they are, no matter what, simply analogies.

If the three are inseparable, then there's no possibility for Jesus Christ to cry out, "Father, Father, why have thou forsaken me?" when He was crucified. For it is entirely Jesus Christ who was crucified, and that not Father and nor the Holy Spirit, they are indeed separable.

My proposal is that Christianity, by theory alone, to be correct, is not monotheistic because of the existence of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

However, it differs from the polytheistic religions because polytheistic religions have this concept that every single God possesses different powers, different substance, different essence, etc.

But in Christianity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not like that. They serve different functions, like the Father plans the salvation, the Son fulfills the plan, the Holy Spirit enlightens. In this respect, theoritically, Christianity then is a polytheistic religion, without having any similarities to any other polytheistic religions, and instead, more of a monotheistic religion in terms of practice.
 
kvn_m said:
With all due respect, I know that there's been countless attempts to use an analogy to describe trinity. All of which are flawed because they are, no matter what, simply analogies.

If the three are inseparable, then there's no possibility for Jesus Christ to cry out, "Father, Father, why have thou forsaken me?" when He was crucified. For it is entirely Jesus Christ who was crucified, and that not Father and nor the Holy Spirit, they are indeed separable.

My proposal is that Christianity, by theory alone, to be correct, is not monotheistic because of the existence of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

However, it differs from the polytheistic religions because polytheistic religions have this concept that every single God possesses different powers, different substance, different essence, etc.

But in Christianity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not like that. They serve different functions, like the Father plans the salvation, the Son fulfills the plan, the Holy Spirit enlightens. In this respect, theoritically, Christianity then is a polytheistic religion, without having any similarities to any other polytheistic religions, and instead, more of a monotheistic religion in terms of practice.
Click to expand...

Then why did you ask a question that you did not want to hear an answer to?
 
kvn_m said:
With all due respect, I know that there's been countless attempts to use an analogy to describe trinity. All of which are flawed because they are, no matter what, simply analogies.

If the three are inseparable, then there's no possibility for Jesus Christ to cry out, "Father, Father, why have thou forsaken me?" when He was crucified. For it is entirely Jesus Christ who was crucified, and that not Father and nor the Holy Spirit, they are indeed separable.

My proposal is that Christianity, by theory alone, to be correct, is not monotheistic because of the existence of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

However, it differs from the polytheistic religions because polytheistic religions have this concept that every single God possesses different powers, different substance, different essence, etc.

But in Christianity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not like that. They serve different functions, like the Father plans the salvation, the Son fulfills the plan, the Holy Spirit enlightens. In this respect, theoritically, Christianity then is a polytheistic religion, without having any similarities to any other polytheistic religions, and instead, more of a monotheistic religion in terms of practice.
Click to expand...

You say tomato, I say tomahto, let's call the whole thing off. :)

lunamoth
 
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