What is Daniel 10 and 11 about?

[InChristAlways]

Since "most" christians view the book of revelation as Inspired and both Daniel 11 and Revelation 9 show a Great War, what are others views of the event in Daniel 11 concerning the "Time of the End" and the Last Bowl poured out in Revelation? For some reason, I view Daniel 11 in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and revelation, not Macabees as I feel Christ would have had to bring the New Covenant to Israel/Judah first? [Jeremiah 31]Thanks.
Steve

Daniel 1

1:28 "While returning to his land with great riches, his heart shall be [moved] against the holy covenant;? so he shall do [damage] and return to his own land...............35 And from The Intelligent/Wise Ones, They shall stumble, to refine in them and to purify and to whiten untill the Time of the End that further to Appointed Time.

Daniel 12:9 And he said, "Go [your way,] Daniel, for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the Time of the End. .... 13 "But you, go [your way] till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."

(Rotherham) Daniel 10:1 In the third year of Cyrus["posses thou the Furnace"], King of Persia["pure/splended"], a thing, was revealed unto Daniel["God is my Judge"], whose name was called Belteshazzar["Lord of the straightened treasure"]; and True was the thing, even [concerned] a Great Army/Host [#06635], and he understood the thing, and had understanding in the sight/appearance.

Reve 9:3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 Now the number of the army of the horsemen [was] two hundred million; I heard the number of them.

Reve 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" [Time of the End?]

 

[chokmah]

Since "most" christians view the book of revelation as Inspired and both Daniel 11 and Revelation 9 show a Great War, what are others views of the event in Daniel 11 concerning the "Time of the End" and the Last Bowl poured out in Revelation? For some reason, I view Daniel 11 in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and revelation, not Macabees as I feel Christ would have had to bring the New Covenant to Israel/Judah first? [Jeremiah 31]Thanks.Steve(Rotherham)

Shalom Steve:

1) What correlation do people present regarding Jesus and the Maccabees? My understanding is that neither one has anything to do with the other. As a matter of fact, if the Epiphanes/Maccabees considerations is correct, then that nullifies the whole 3 1/2 year ministry of Jesus and the 3 1/2 year attack on Jerusalem by the Romans as being what Daniel prophesied.
2) Do you feel that Jesus fulfilled the bringing of the "New" Covenant to the Jews? If so, then how? Also, are you familiar with the meanings behind chadosha (and its variants)?

 

[InChristAlways]

(Rotherham) Daniel 10:1 In the third year of Cyrus["posses thou the Furnace"], King of Persia["pure/splended"], a thing, was revealed unto Daniel["God is my Judge"], whose name was called Belteshazzar["Lord of the straightened treasure"]; and True was the thing, even [concerned] a Great Army/Host [#06635], and he understood the thing, and had understanding in the sight/appearance.

Shalom Steve:

1) What correlation do people present regarding Jesus and the Maccabees? My understanding is that neither one has anything to do with the other. As a matter of fact, if the Epiphanes/Maccabees considerations is correct, then that nullifies the whole 3 1/2 year ministry of Jesus and the 3 1/2 year attack on Jerusalem by the Romans as being what Daniel prophesied.
2) Do you feel that Jesus fulfilled the bringing of the "New" Covenant to the Jews? If so, then how? Also, are you familiar with the meanings behind chadosha (and its variants)?

Hi chokma. I may be the only one that is trying to correlate that as far as I know.

The second time I read the Bible through when the Lord came into my life over 3 years ago, I felt it was biblically fulfilled, and ever since I have been trying to harmonize the Day of the Lord/Time of the End prophecies of the OT/NT to the book of Revelation.
If the 70 weeks involves the New Covenant being brought to Israel/Judah and the Abomination of Daniel 11 is the same one as the Olivet Discourse, then how can Daniel 11 be during Macabees? In any case, the End comes after the Messiah comes it appears, and that would be Jesus.
This is why I was trying to accurately translate it first.

Genesis 49:1 And Jacob calleth unto his sons and saith, `Be gathered together, and I declare to you that which doth happen with you in the latter end of the days.

Daniel 12:8 And I have heard, and I do not understand, and I say, `O my lord, what [is] the latter end of these?'9 And he said, "Go [your way,] Daniel, for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the Time of the End. .... 13 "But you, go [your way] till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."

Matthew 24:14 and this good news of the reign shall be proclaimed in all the "world" [#3625], for a testimony to all the nations; and then shall the end arrive.

Reve 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" [Time of the End?]

 

[chokmah]

Hi chokma. I may be the only one that is trying to correlate that as far as I know.

Got'cha.

The second time I read the Bible through when the Lord came into my life over 3 years ago, I felt it was biblically fulfilled, and ever since I have been trying to harmonize the Day of the Lord/Time of the End prophecies of the OT/NT to the book of Revelation.

You believe that all the criteria of Jeremiah 31 have been fulfilled regarding the "New" Covenant?

If the 70 weeks involves the New Covenant being brought to Israel/Judah and the Abomination of Daniel 11 is the same one as the Olivet Discourse, then how can Daniel 11 be during Macabees?

I don't correlate Daniel's 70 weeks with the advent of the "New" Covenant. I consider them completely separate. When taking that into account, it's a little bit easier to see how Daniel's prophesy deals with Epiphanes and the Maccabees.

In any case, the End comes after the Messiah comes it appears, and that would be Jesus.
This is why I was trying to accurately translate it first.

Got'cha.

 

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by ICA
If the 70 weeks involves the New Covenant being brought to Israel/Judah and the Abomination of Daniel 11 is the same one as the Olivet Discourse, then how can Daniel 11 be during Macabees?
In any case, the End comes after the Messiah comes it appears, and that would be Jesus.
This is why I was trying to accurately translate it first.

I don't correlate Daniel's 70 weeks with the advent of the "New" Covenant. I consider them completely separate. When taking that into account, it's a little bit easier to see how Daniel's prophesy deals with Epiphanes and the Maccabees.

My question is really this and might be more for my Christian brethren perhaps.

If Daniel 11 is the same "abomination" as Matt 24:15, then I wonder why Christians view Daniel 11 as happening during Macabees. I can understand the jews looking at it that way, as they are still awaiting on their messiah, but Christians view Jesus as the Messiah that came to Israel and the Temple was still standing at that time when Jesus said this.
Any idea?

Daniel 11:31 and arms from Him, They shall stand up and They profane/defile the Sanctuary, The Stronghold, and They remove the Continual/Perpetual and They give The Abomination, One making desolate.

Matthew 24:15 Whensoever, therefore, ye shall see the abomination desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place,--he that readeth, let him think,

Daniel 12:8 And I have heard, and I do not understand, and I say, `O my lord, what [is] the latter end of these?'9 And he said, "Go [your way,] Daniel, for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the Time of the End. .... 13 "But you, go [your way] till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."

 

[chokmah]

My question is really this and might be more for my Christian brethren perhaps.

If Daniel 11 is the same "abomination" as Matt 24:15, then I wonder why Christians view Daniel 11 as happening during Macabees. I can understand the jews looking at it that way, as they are still awaiting on their messiah, but Christians view Jesus as the Messiah that came to Israel and the Temple was still standing at that time when Jesus said this.
Any idea?

To be honest, I don't know of one Christian who ascribes the time table of Daniel to the Maccabees. Therefore, I can't help you on that one.

 

[InChristAlways]

(Rotherham) Daniel 10:1 In the third year of Cyrus["posses thou the Furnace"], King of Persia["pure/splended"], a thing, was revealed unto Daniel["God is my Judge"], whose name was called Belteshazzar["Lord of the straightened treasure"]; and True was the thing, even [concerned] a Great Army/Host [#06635], and he understood the thing, and had understanding in the sight/appearance.

My question is really this and might be more for my Christian brethren perhaps.

If Daniel 11 is the same "abomination" as Matt 24:15, then I wonder why Christians view Daniel 11 as happening during Macabees. I can understand the jews looking at it that way, as they are still awaiting on their messiah, but Christians view Jesus as the Messiah that came to Israel and the Temple was still standing at that time when Jesus said this.
Any idea?

I don't correlate Daniel's 70 weeks with the advent of the "New" Covenant. I consider them completely separate. When taking that into account, it's a little bit easier to see how Daniel's prophesy deals with Epiphanes and the Maccabees................To be honest, I don't know of one Christian who ascribes the time table of Daniel to the Maccabees. Therefore, I can't help you on that one.

Thanks chokmah. Maybe some others here can give their thoughts on this as I somehow feel that Great War in Daniel 10:1 is what is being depicted in Revelation, as that book does show Jesus as the Manchild being born then taken up [Revelation 12] so that is part of the 70 weeks in my view.
Thanks for the post.
Steve

Daniel 11:22 and armed forces of the overwhelmer/flood, they shall be overwhelmed/overflowed before his face, and they shall be broken and morevoer a prince of a covenant....28 So then he will return to his own land, with great substance, with, his heart, set upon/against a covenant, holy one; yea he will act with effect, and return to his own land.

31 and arms from Him, They shall stand up and They profane/defile the Sanctuary, The Stronghold, and They remove the Continual/Perpetual and They give The Abomination, One making desolate.

Matthew 24:15 Whensoever, therefore, ye shall see the abomination desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place,--he that readeth, let him think,

 

[InChristAlways]

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks, have been divided concerning thy people and concerning thy holy city

Originally Posted by chokmah You believe that all the criteria of Jeremiah 31 have been fulfilled regarding the "New" Covenant?
I don't correlate Daniel's 70 weeks with the advent of the "New" Covenant. I consider them completely separate. When taking that into account, it's a little bit easier to see how Daniel's prophesy deals with Epiphanes and the Maccabees................To be honest, I don't know of one Christian who ascribes the time table of Daniel to the Maccabees. Therefore, I can't help you on that one.

Do you mean Daniel 11:31, as most do see that event during Maccabees I believe.? I just cannot see how Daniel 11 could be during Maccabees as the Abomination in both of these passages use the article "the", but then again, Daniel 11 is a tough chapter in the Bible.

Daniel 11:31 and arms from Him, They shall stand up and They profane/defile the Sanctuary, The Stronghold, and They remove the Continual/Perpetual and They give The Abomination, One making desolate.

Matthew 24:15 Whensoever, therefore, ye shall see the abomination desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place,--he that readeth, let him think/be understanding,

If these are the same events, I would like to ask how this event would be happening just before, during and after the time that Jesus quoted from this prophecy.

The word for "latter/end", #0319, is used the first time in Genesis 49:1 and the last time in Micah 4:1 and thus would also fulfill Zechariah 14, the 70 weeks of Daniel and therefore, the Christian book of Revelation.

Any thoughts on this from others and are there some here who may have an accurate translation of Daniel chapter 11 or would like to help me with it? Thanks.
Steve

Daniel 10:1 In the third year of Cyrus["posses thou the Furnace"], King of Persia["pure/splended"], a thing, was revealed unto Daniel["God is my Judge"], whose name was called Belteshazzar["Lord of the straightened treasure"]; and True was the thing, even [concerned] a great Army/Host [#06635], and he understood the thing, and had understanding in the sight/appearance............ 14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter end [#0319] of days; for there is yet a vision for the days.'

'achariyth (Strong's 0319) occurs 61 times in 60 verses: Page 3, verses 51 - 60 [5 Times in Daniel]

First time used in OT:

Genesis 49:1 And Jacob calleth unto his sons and saith, `Be gathered together, and I declare to you that which doth happen with you in the latter end [#0319] of the days.

Last time used in OT:

Micah 4:1 But it shall come to pass, in the latter end [#0319] of the days, that the mountain of the house of Yahweh shall be, set up, as the head of the mountains, and, exalted, shall it be, above the hills,--and peoples, shall stream thereunto;

 

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways:" Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will cut a new Covenant Matt 26:28 "For this is My blood of the new Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished! "

Originally Posted by InChristAlways (in signature): Reve 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" [Time of the End?]

Isn't it interesting? When Jesus said in the first one that "It is finished." It really wasn't, it had only just begun to unfold.

Is it possible the same could be true in the second one?

 

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways [his signature]:" Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will cut a new Covenant Matt 26:28 "For this is My blood of the new Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished! "

Isn't it interesting? When Jesus said in the first one that "It is finished." It really wasn't, it had only just begun to unfold.

Reve 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" [Time of the End?]

Is it possible the same could be true in the second one?

Hi Amy. It depends on ones view of Daniel 12 and revelation and what they are representing, especially to the OC jewish Nation which Jesus spoke of in Matt 21. I am still trying to translate Daniel 11 but it is difficult, as I am not a hebrew/aramaic "scholar".

Revelation happens in a fairly "short" period of time and my view is the "1000yr" period is also part of Daniel's 70 weeks, and thus I view "armegeddon" and Gog-magog as the "same event", as Daniel 12 only happens One time upon the Jewish Nation.

Daniel 9:24 " Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city,

Remember also that Paul mentioned 2 Covenants in Galatians 4 and that is also a very important passage.

It is all divinely "symbolic" and I believe it represents the fulfillment of bringing of both Nations of Judah and Israel together under one King, with the "gentiles" gathered to it to make up the Israel of God?. Just my humble view. Peace and love to you.
Steve

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands [watch] over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a Nation, [Even] to that time. And at that time your people shall be saved/escape, Every one who is found written in the Book/Scroll. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

(Rotherham) Matthew 21: 23 Now when He came into the temple, the Chief Priests and the Elders of the people confronted Him as He was teaching, and said, "By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority?".........43 Wherefore I say unto You, The kingdom of God, will be taken away from You, and given to a Nation bringing forth the fruits thereof:

Reve 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his messengers fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his messengers fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.