Then let me remind you (as a visitor learning about other faiths), just because this is The Islam forum it doesn't mean you can push it on me niether.
Good that you know. Never in my previous post did I ever thought of pushing our doctorine to you. You're in the Islam forum and this is the place where non-Muslim ask Muslims about our faith. We don't have to defend our believe to you. If you ask we answer in the proper manner. Not like the way you did, simply professing your believe here. Hang on - if you want to do that, you can always do that in the Christian Forum.
Let me quote what you've written that lead to why I have to remind you...
Originally Posted by Azur24
I quote you said "...Believers of the Bible..." I recomend you rephrase that because Christain people actually do visit this section (in case you didn't already know).
If you feel the need to defend your faith as you do above, you can always set up a topic in the Christian forum. Like we did when someone post in the Christian Forum that they don't believe Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a prophet just because he is rich. Thus a topic was opened in Islam Forum to discuss this. See
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/islam/muhammad-peace-be-upon-him-rich-4969.html
We would expect the same respect from you.
Originally Posted by Azur24
Wrong, by saying his likeness i am not claiming that i can visualise God's form (God doesn't have a physical from, you should know that). What i mean by likeness is by his views, and his teachings.
Good that you clarify. Thus, if it is likeness by his views and his teachings, then Jesus is just a prophet like all Prophets who are doing the same. All prophets from Adam (pbuh) to Muhammad (pbuh) have likeness by HIS views and HIS teachings.
Originally Posted by Light
Are you saying that God the Father is not perfect without his creation? So, that imply that God needed his creation to become perfect.
Says who?
Read your earlier post.
The Son is the manifestation of God in action, the physical connection between God the Father and his creation, together forming a complete and perfect God
If that is not what you mean, please explain.
No, because people don't believe in Jesus. They believe in God. Also because of Jesus there are more people aware of God's presence (not neccesary believers though). He is also responsible for one of the largest religions in the world, some achievement don't you think?
So, there is a difference for people before and after Jesus. OK, let's take what you say for now.
Being the largest religion, doesn't mean it is the right one. Same for Islam. However, Islam doesn't force people to accept its teaching. Rather it challenge you to think and search the truth. By looking through Allah's creation. I don't say that Christianity does any different, however, for a start the concept of Trinity was very hard to grasps. When I asked different domination, they have different explanation and not one have a uniform explanation of the concept. Islam is simple. The is one God you have to worship. If you are in difficulty, HE is the one you asked for help. If you are in happiness, HE is the one you praised.
I've asked myself, and myself says ...
When you asked yourself, and yourself says - who is that really who gives you the answer? Holy spirit, God, Satan? Even for Muslims, we do a lot of reflection on ourself, we perform prayers and meditate by repeating Allah attributes. Even then, we always consult fellow Muslims when in doubt. This is because we know that Satan are always around and does not reserve any effort to lead us astray.
...there are some ignorant people in this world who don't understand and God himself isn't going to come down from his Kingdom to get through to those ...Lets say slower ones is he? So he sent a human representative with his likeness (don't start that again). And besides if you ask and i quote 'Why do God need his Son to act for him?' you must then also ask why does God need anyone to act for him? So then explain the use of prophets to me then?
For a start, Muslim perfectly understood God. HE creates this world and the whole universe. Muslims aren't ignorant of this fact as it is a part of their article of faith. There is even a story of Moses who is very inquisitive. One day Moses asked God if God ever sleep. God then asked Moses to hold an object on both hand. After a while, Moses fell asleep and dropped the object he is holding. When he awoke, God then told him that if God does sleep, the whole universe will be wiped off in a winked of an eye like Moses dropping the object he is holding. The example I quote is to explain to you that God is different from us. HE is unique, doesn't need sleep nor feel tired. All this attributes are created by HIM. HE don't have the necessity like we do. HE created us, human and Jinns purely to worship HIM.
Back to the topic, it is God's wisdom that HE sents prophets to the people. Muslims don't believe that God does not go up and down from his Kingdom, HE is Omnipresent. Present everywhere! Face it this way, even if God do show HIMself here on earth, there will still be some of us who will not follow HIS teaching. In fact there is one narration where in Judgement Day, the non-believers request from God to give them another life on earth to set things right and worship HIM earnestly.
Right, I have no doubt that God send representatives (prophets) to the people, but HE made no distinction between them. Muslims are taught to do the same and to believe in all the prophets. Therefore, Jesus (pbuh) is a prophet like Adam (pbuh), Idris (pbuh), Nuh (pbuh), Hud (pbuh), Saleh (pbuh), Ibrahim (pbuh), Ismail (pbuh), Lut (pbuh), Ishak (pbuh), Yacob (pbuh), Yusuf (pbuh), Ayyub (pbuh), Shuaib (pbuh), Musa (pbuh), Harun (pbuh), Zulkifli (pbuh), Daud (pbuh), Sulaiman (pbuh), Ilyas (pbuh), Ilyasaa (pbuh), Yunus (pbuh), Zakaria (pbuh), Yahya (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh). So what are their duty then? To spread the concept of Tawhid - believe in One and only God and HE has no association.
Hmmm, no offence but i don't believe in Islam's (on some points) theology as well.
Well, I don't expect you to. Islam does not force people in accepting the faith. The famous verse which says - 'There is no compulsion in religion' is enough for you to take heed.
Jesus was not planning a defence he simply did not want to be interupted in his prayer. If he indeed was not volunteering he simply would've escaped, he knew Judas was to betray him did he do anything about it?
The fact being, he didn't escape and prior to that he commanded his disciple to carry swords. Why do he need them to carry swords if it is not for defence? OK, lets say he did not want to be interrupted in his prayer. So, what exactly is he praying for, especially like you said he knew Judas was to betray him.
We do not pray properly, therefore God will condem us and send us to hell!
We - as in you? Isn't that a fearful thought, bearing that we only have 60 - 80 earth life years to prepare for it. Hmm... at least we know that our prayers are similar to the way Jesus (pbuh) did. Thus, based on your statement, God will not condem us to hell! Praise be to Allah, the owner of the day of judgement. Thanks for pointing that out Azur24.
Remember you read this from the Bible, so this is an example to christians. I do not speak for all Christians though, but do you think i only do things only for my own will? Well your wrong because i don't. Also I'm not here to create arguments but don't discredit other people's beliefs to justify your own, what else are you doing? I respect you though, as we may be of different religions but we both follow the same God (or so i think?).
Oh, I see.. my apology because I thought the Bible is for the whole humanity. Thus, forgive me because I didn't know that it is an example for christians only. We are worshipping the same God. The same God that Adam (pbuh), Moses(pbuh), Isa(pbuh), Muhammad(pbuh) worship. The difference is small, THEOLOGY.
On the contrary, Islam is for the whole humanity. Especially for those who wants to think and find the truth. In it contains challenges, facts and teaching that guide human to the right path according to Allah's command. Thus, you're more than welcome to read Quran and dispel all of it while reading. See if it does not make sense. I know some people claimed certain statement in the Quran as absurd and doesn't hold the argument. That will be a different discussion, but what I can say is something that we have not discovered now and was mentioned in the Quran does not prove anything. It does not mean that the Quran is false and have errors. Many times do people make such statement but was later discredited when new discoveries disprove their claims and concur with the Quran.
) to say that ether jesus lied or at leat made a mistake when both the Christians and the muslims belive he was pefect?