Sufism

J

Jeannot

Jeannot
Messages
165
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
East Coast US
SUFI: The Immediacy of God


Karen Armstrong points out that the Kingdom of God "is not an experience for the elite or for monks only; the kingdom announced by Christ in the Gospels is a union with God that everybody can experience here and now, without having to wait until the next life." Mysticism is available to all – though some do seem to have a greater talent for it than others.

The Sufis, Islamic mystics, honor and exalt Jesus. Some go so far as to say "There is no God but al-Lah, and Jesus is his messenger." But basically, they have an appreciation for sincere approaches to God, no matter what the religious denomination.

Armstrong says "[The Sufis] also evolved the techniques and disciplines that have helped mystics all over the world to achieve an alternative state of consciousness. Sufis added the practices of fasting, night vigils and chanting the Divine Names as a mantra to the basic requirements of Muslim law." In this respect, they are not very different from Catholic, Orthodox, or Buddhist monks.

In the Gospel of John, Jesus say "The Father and I are one," reflecting the common experience of mystics with God. Similarly, the Sufi mystic Abu Yazid Bistami (d 874) felt that in becoming one with himself, he was simultaneously becoming one with God:

"I gazed upon al-Lah with the eye of truth and said to Him: 'Who is this?' He said 'This is neither I nor other than I. There is no God but I." Then he changed me out of my identity into his Selfhood.... Then I communed with Him with the tongue of His Face, saying, 'How fares it with me and with Thee?' He said, 'I am through Thee: there is no god but Thou."

There are perhaps as many experiences of oneness with God as there are mystics. Just as there are as many approaches to God as there are people. God is utter simplicity, and at the same time, infinite variety.
 
The Sufis, Islamic mystics, honor and exalt Jesus. Some go so far as to say "There is no God but al-Lah, and Jesus is his messenger."
Click to expand...

Well its a part of Islamic belief (untill unless Armstrong means something else)

In this respect, they are not very different from Catholic, Orthodox, or Buddhist monks.
Click to expand...

There is a little difference though . While the best thing that a person can do in both Buddhism & Christianity is to live a life of celibacy, leaving everything behind, Islam asks its followers to live among the people, & share their knowledge with people who dont know . A good example would be Ghazali & Abdul-Qadir Jilan . Both of them were scholors of Islam , & at the same time practicing Sufis , & they worked , & got married .

"I gazed upon al-Lah with the eye of truth and said to Him: 'Who is this?' He said 'This is neither I nor other than I. There is no God but I." Then he changed me out of my identity into his Selfhood.... Then I communed with Him with the tongue of His Face, saying, 'How fares it with me and with Thee?' He said, 'I am through Thee: there is no god but Thou."
Click to expand...

I think Armstrong answers this when she says

Al-Junayd was acutely aware of the dangers of mysticism. It would be easy for untrained people, who did not have the benefit of the advice of a pir and the rigorous Sufi training, to misunderstand the ecstasy of a mystic and get a very simplistic idea of what he meant when he said that
he was one with God.​

The philosophy of Fanaa & Baqaa are actually based on ahadeeth like

Volume 8, Book 76, Number 509:

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Allah said, 'I will declare war against him who shows hostility to a pious worshipper of Mine. And the most beloved things with which My slave comes nearer to Me, is what I have enjoined upon him; and My slave keeps on coming closer to Me through performing Nawafil (praying or doing extra deeds besides what is obligatory) till I love him, so I become his sense of hearing with which he hears, and his sense of sight with which he sees, and his hand with which he grips, and his leg with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him, and if he asks My protection (Refuge), I will protect him; (i.e. give him My Refuge) and I do not hesitate to do anything as I hesitate to take the soul of the believer, for he hates death, and I hate to disappoint him."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/076.sbt.html#008.076.509

And there are many other Quranic verses too , that ask humans to find God inside their hearts .

There are perhaps as many experiences of oneness with God as there are mystics. Just as there are as many approaches to God as there are people. God is utter simplicity, and at the same time, infinite variety.
Click to expand...


Well I absolutely agree . God is an infinitie unity . Humans usually experience a lot of difficulty in understanding both infinity & unity. Until unless they are away from their human selves . But when they translate their experience into words, it becomes too weird to understand .​
 
farhan said:
Well its a part of Islamic belief (untill unless Armstrong means something else)



There is a little difference though . While the best thing that a person can do in both Buddhism & Christianity is to live a life of celibacy, leaving everything behind, Islam asks its followers to live among the people, & share their knowledge with people who dont know . A good example would be Ghazali & Abdul-Qadir Jilan . Both of them were scholors of Islam , & at the same time practicing Sufis , & they worked , & got married .



I think Armstrong answers this when she says
Al-Junayd was acutely aware of the dangers of mysticism. It would be easy for untrained people, who did not have the benefit of the advice of a pir and the rigorous Sufi training, to misunderstand the ecstasy of a mystic and get a very simplistic idea of what he meant when he said that
he was one with God.​
The philosophy of Fanaa & Baqaa are actually based on ahadeeth like

Volume 8, Book 76, Number 509:

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Allah said, 'I will declare war against him who shows hostility to a pious worshipper of Mine. And the most beloved things with which My slave comes nearer to Me, is what I have enjoined upon him; and My slave keeps on coming closer to Me through performing Nawafil (praying or doing extra deeds besides what is obligatory) till I love him, so I become his sense of hearing with which he hears, and his sense of sight with which he sees, and his hand with which he grips, and his leg with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him, and if he asks My protection (Refuge), I will protect him; (i.e. give him My Refuge) and I do not hesitate to do anything as I hesitate to take the soul of the believer, for he hates death, and I hate to disappoint him."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/076.sbt.html#008.076.509

And there are many other Quranic verses too , that ask humans to find God inside their hearts .




Well I absolutely agree . God is an infinitie unity . Humans usually experience a lot of difficulty in understanding both infinity & unity. Until unless they are away from their human selves . But when they translate their experience into words, it becomes too weird to understand .​
Click to expand...


Well said, Farhan. Yes, there are experiences which it is impossible to put into words.​
 
intresting post mashallah ppl make out sufism is different set of muslims when they are not where do ppl get this idea from? i would love to know there goal and mission is the same they strive to be like our beloved rasool pbuh and submit themselves to Allah swt...is it because ppl dedicate there lives to islam and ppl get jealous or think this is extream ppl if u know please do enlighten me of this misunderstanding allhumduillah
 
Jeannot said:
SUFI: The Immediacy of God


Karen Armstrong points out that the Kingdom of God "is not an experience for the elite or for monks only; the kingdom announced by Christ in the Gospels is a union with God that everybody can experience here and now, without having to wait until the next life." Mysticism is available to all – though some do seem to have a greater talent for it than others.

The Sufis, Islamic mystics, honor and exalt Jesus. Some go so far as to say "There is no God but al-Lah, and Jesus is his messenger." But basically, they have an appreciation for sincere approaches to God, no matter what the religious denomination.

Armstrong says "[The Sufis] also evolved the techniques and disciplines that have helped mystics all over the world to achieve an alternative state of consciousness. Sufis added the practices of fasting, night vigils and chanting the Divine Names as a mantra to the basic requirements of Muslim law." In this respect, they are not very different from Catholic, Orthodox, or Buddhist monks.

In the Gospel of John, Jesus say "The Father and I are one," reflecting the common experience of mystics with God. Similarly, the Sufi mystic Abu Yazid Bistami (d 874) felt that in becoming one with himself, he was simultaneously becoming one with God:

"I gazed upon al-Lah with the eye of truth and said to Him: 'Who is this?' He said 'This is neither I nor other than I. There is no God but I." Then he changed me out of my identity into his Selfhood.... Then I communed with Him with the tongue of His Face, saying, 'How fares it with me and with Thee?' He said, 'I am through Thee: there is no god but Thou."

There are perhaps as many experiences of oneness with God as there are mystics. Just as there are as many approaches to God as there are people. God is utter simplicity, and at the same time, infinite variety.
Click to expand...

Translation problems I think:)

Although many Sufasim deviated from the right way of Islam.

hope allah guide us to the truth
 
At present there is a program called 'the retreat', about a Sufi Retreat and some Muslims and non-Muslims who attend it. Its on BBC2 at 2100 hours on Mondays.

Interesting to watch.

I would add I am not a Sufi and this program has not made it any more attractive to me.
 
Yes, I watched the retreat and found it to be very interesting although I didn't agree with some of their methodolgy. The setting was truly amazing! I felt like booking a place
 
If knowledge does not liberate the self from the self then ignorance is better than such knowledge.

- Sana’I Diwan​
 
Hi,

Why have Sufis been persecuted by "mainstream" Muslims? Are they considered heretical or what?

s.
 
some people think some of them are heretics. some of them have done some quite strange things over the years, too. then there's ibn hallaj (i think was his name) who was executed for repeatedly shouting "ana al-haq!" ("i am the Truth!) which, as you can understand, being a Divine Name, caused quite a bit of upset. you can see where some people would find them a bit much, although i personally love 'em - without sufis i wouldn't be nearly as religious as i am myself as a jew!

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
I have found that Sufi beliefs and ritual also have a lot to do with Christian mysticism at the most basic levels. Sufism flourished in areas of the ancient middle East where Aramaic was the mother language. Does that surprise anyone ? It is also the place where Bahai has rooted itself.

flow....:)
 
flowperson said:
I have found that Sufi beliefs and ritual also have a lot to do with Christian mysticism at the most basic levels. Sufism flourished in areas of the ancient middle East where Aramaic was the mother language. Does that surprise anyone ? It is also the place where Bahai has rooted itself.

flow....:)
Click to expand...
It is interesting to me how the mystical portions of so many religions seem to be more connected and accepted by each others thought than their own... did I express that right? I'm agreeing with Flow, the christian mystics, sufists, kabbalists...seem to often have these heretical overtones from the religion from which they sprouted...(or is it the religion that sprouted from them...)
 
Hi wil...I have learned that beginnings and endings are one in the same...ever seen the artwork of M.C. Escher ? That concept should not be confused with the music of M.C. Rove however .

I was once dictated a short poem out of the blue...
"Subtle beginnings and quiet endings,
are the hallmarks of Creation."

Or one could call that "the still small voice" I suppose.

flow....:)
 
wil said:
It is interesting to me how the mystical portions of so many religions seem to be more connected and accepted by each others thought than their own... did I express that right? I'm agreeing with Flow, the christian mystics, sufists, kabbalists...seem to often have these heretical overtones from the religion from which they sprouted...(or is it the religion that sprouted from them...)
Click to expand...


I’m agreeing with Flow and wil! Recent TV programmes on Christian and sufi retreats and a book looking at (most of) the major meditation traditions ( http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/what-book-have-you-read-6741.html ) have demonstrated to me this over-riding commonality which can become lost when “it” gets dressed up into disparate religions with their unique terminologies. I’m amazed that this is what constitutes “heresy”, it seems to me to constitute the real purpose of religion, experiential contact with the super-mundane. The differences come from the putting of labels on the ineffable tin. But underneath the labels, there is only one tin.

s.
 
farhan said:
There is a little difference though . While the best thing that a person can do in Buddhism is to live a life of celibacy, leaving everything behind
Click to expand...

Er, what can I say except only partially correct. A Buddhist monk would of course be celibate but would not "leave everything behind". So there is more to it than this being the best that they can do.

As with all monks I presume, they are living the teachings that they believe in and, I would have thought that most people know that Buddhist monks are often (depending on the school and country) actively engaged in their communities and societies. It is not just the Dalai Lama that has a "full time job" !!!

for example: Engaged Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

s.
 
Research Info

#Not a spammer! Just passing on research info relevant to the discussion!#

Assalaamualaykum,

I was looking for Quran and Hadith basis for Sufism/Tasawwuf I was directed towards some internet links…

This is a good introduction to Sufism/Tasawwuf in Quran and Hadith;
http://www.ukbaguainstitute.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=856

Here are 2 great links with lots of articles and info;
http://www.deenislam.co.uk/
http://www.sunnah.org/

I was also directed to the works of Imam Abu Hamid al-Ghazali;
http://www.ghazali.org/

################

Also - I am not trying to convert anyone - I’ll just pass on something from my beloved Shaykh to give anyone who is interested a taste of Sufism. It also gives an explantion how some spritual cultivators/Sufis become deviated by some spiritual practices;

Excerpt from the book: "The Naqshbandi Way: a guidebook for spiritual progress"​
Sheikh Nazim al Haqqani​

Most Sufi Paths offer aspirants a gradual unveiling of the heart's eye, accomplished through the practice of Dhikr, the commemoration of Allah. These spiritual exercises may contain various of the Lord's Holy Names and other spiritually potent formulae. Some of them involve practices designed to break the spell of mundane consciousness, and propel the practicant into a state of altered awareness. Such practices way include the repetition of many, many thousands of holy phrases, sometimes connected with breathing exercises and often with physical movements. Without a doubt, through the steadfast and dedicated practice of these methods, the aspirant may experience spiritual states and attain stations unimaginable in a normal state of consciousness, may feel himself to be flying towards a heavenly goal, beholding the wonders of the mysterious and hidden aspects of creation. If your eyes have been thus opened, and if you are greatly enamoured of the wide vistas you have behold, then be warned, that, should you embark upon the Naqshbandi Path, your colourful plumage will be clipped and replaced with the humble cloak of obscurity. For the main difference between the Naqshbandi Way and others is that while they are giving we are taking away. Everything must go: even your separate existence. First you will be without anything, and then you will be nothing. Only those who are prepared to take such a step can be real Naqshbandi Murids. Our Grandshaikh explained that, as long as a drop is falling from the heavens it may be called a drop, but when it drops into the Ocean it is no more a drop, it is an Ocean.

So, if anyone is interested in spiritual stations and powers, he may attain them through following any of the forty Sufi Paths, as these ways are most efficacious. Through the recitation of the Most Beautiful Names of Allah every one receives bountifully in accordance with his intention, but finally, the sincere seeker should be struck with remorse for his having pursued stations and states. One day he will perceive how he has fallen victim to distraction and say: "Oh my Lord, I have been wasting myself and my efforts on something other than You". Yes, if a seeker ends his life in those states he will regret that they distracted him from seeking His Divine Countenance; therefore, we have been ordered to strip our followers of their spiritual adornments, so that they mav be presented to their Lord in this way: "This is Your servant "nothing". Oh our Lord, accept Your servant, as he is lost to himself and is only for You". This is our top priority, and helping our followers attain such a condition is our duty. You must understand that the strange and enchanting experiences are the scenery of the journey not the goal. Don't imagine that you are out for a scenic Sunday drive, no, this is the high road, the direct route, not the scenic route, and we have only our goal in mind, like a climber seeking the summit of Everest. Our attraction for our Beloved is the attraction of the moth to the fire: we are throwing ourselves in. The Holy Prophet Muhammad is our Guide and our example. On his miraculous Night Journey, in which he was conducted by the Angel Gabriel first from Mecca to Jerusalem and then up through the seven heavens and into the Divine Presence, he passed through the whole Universe, but Allah Almighty informs us through the Holy Qur'an that the Prophet's vision:

"Neither swerved nor transgressed".

In other words, he looked and beheld, but never let those sights distract him from ascending towards his most exalted destination. The Holy Prophet was able to behold those sights without their distracting him because his heart was only for his Lord - he was the "Beloved of Allah" -, but as for ourselves, we are vulnerable and weak willed, as those powers and attainments may accord with our egos' desires, whereas annihilation is never an attractive proposition for the ego. Therefore, in order to provide us with maximum protection on our way, my Grandshaikh informed me that Naqshbandi Masters take a totally different approach to the unveiling of the heart's eye. There are many veils between us and our heavenly positions. A Naqshbandi Master rends these veils in a descending fashion: starting with that closest to the Divine Presence and then successively downwards towards the level of the Murid. This process continues throughout the training of the Murid until there is but one veil restraining the Murids vision from the contemplation of the Divine Reality.

In order to protect the Murid, however, the Grandshaikh does not rend that veil. lest the Murids ego allow him to indulge in something other then his Lord. That lowest veil is the Veil of Humanity (Hijab ul-Bashariyya) and it is rent finally with the last breath before death, at which time the Murid understands the wisdom in keeping him veiled, as his vision reaches, unobstructed and unflinching, to the highest Heaven. As for other Tariqahs, the veils are rent from the bottom. As each is successively cut through the mystical practices, the Murid beholds a new panorama. But that very vision may keep him from progressing, as, when he dies, he leaves the world at that station only. Those who attain such stations during this life may discover that have become powerful and famous among people. Therein is the danger, as power and recognition are conditions conducive to the tendency towards worldliness. You can be sure that the ego will never be heedless of such a cardinal opportunity to demand its share of the excitement and admiration, thus lending its taint to the whole process of spiritual endeavour. My advice is to leave fame to those who pursue it. If you are a Sufi aspirant seek your Lord, not fame. Look, history's most renowned holy woman, the Virgin Mary once prayed:

"If only I were nameless and forgotten"

She has taught all mankind to seek only obscurity in the sight of the world, not to desire recognition. The hankering for power and fame is the heaviest burden anyone can shoulder. I don't advise anyone to pursue fame: seek only to be forgotten in the Ocean of Unity of Allah Almighty.

(source;http://www.uksufi.co.uk/Newcomers)

###########

Salaams
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top