social service

[dattaswami1]

social service


[FONT=&quot]People often say that Service to man is Service to God. This is a very dangerous statement if it is not properly understood. Service does not mean simply giving food, clothes, medicines etc., to suffering poor and needy people. That poor person is suffering due to the punishment given by God due to his bad deeds. You have not seen his past deeds but you are showing sympathy on him at present. Your help is only temporary. Make him a devotee by imparting knowledge. Then the Lord will help him and that help is permanent.

So the word “service” should not be limited to donating food etc., In such case after receiving your help he may do sins which you have to share. So convert him into a devotee by donating knowledge so that he becomes a devotee, to get personal help from the Lord and also helps others. Since this is the work of the God, such service of yours’ becomes God’s service. Donate knowledge and devotion, even for the wealthy people. Poor did not mean lack of money only. Poor means lack of knowledge and devotion also. Actually the original sense of this statement is different. When the Lord comes in the human form, he appears as a man. You have to detect him by his inherent quality that is blissful knowledge. When you serve such a man your service becomes God’s service because that man is God. When the God is born as a man called as Krishna, some people think that [/FONT]

 

[Faithfulservant]

you're annoying and I hope a moderator deletes every single one of these hundreds of pointless posts.

 

[Quahom1]

social service


[FONT=&quot]People often say that Service to man is Service to God. This is a very dangerous statement if it is not properly understood. Service does not mean simply giving food, clothes, medicines etc., to suffering poor and needy people. That poor person is suffering due to the punishment given by God due to his bad deeds. You have not seen his past deeds but you are showing sympathy on him at present. Your help is only temporary. Make him a devotee by imparting knowledge. Then the Lord will help him and that help is permanent. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So the word “service” should not be limited to donating food etc., In such case after receiving your help he may do sins which you have to share. So convert him into a devotee by donating knowledge so that he becomes a devotee, to get personal help from the Lord and also helps others. Since this is the work of the God, such service of yours’ becomes God’s service. Donate knowledge and devotion, even for the wealthy people. Poor did not mean lack of money only. Poor means lack of knowledge and devotion also. Actually the original sense of this statement is different. When the Lord comes in the human form, he appears as a man. You have to detect him by his inherent quality that is blissful knowledge. When you serve such a man your service becomes God’s service because that man is God. When the God is born as a man called as Krishna, some people think that [/FONT]

That is because you have it backwards. Service to God is a service to Man. Do that and everything else falls perfectly into place.

v/r

Q

 

[dattaswami1]

you're annoying and I hope a moderator deletes every single one of these hundreds of pointless posts.

Please avoid emotions, which deactivate the brain and suppress the logical analysis. Emotion or anger is inversely proportional to knowledge. Let us discuss at length and in-depth with love and patience and with full harmony to each other avoiding the personal criticism. Let us concentrate all our attention on the critical subject only. I will come to your path if you convince me and the vice-versa is left to your will and pleasure. Every point is a common point and belongs to both of us and we are trying to search the truth by sincere discussions so that both of us shall be benefited by the established truth at the end. One of us will correct his point and such correction is not personal correction. It is only correction of our common point. I am not wrong if my point is wrong. Similar is the case with you. I am not identified with any point, nor yourself. Both of us are analysing a substance because you say that it is chloride and I say that it is bromide. On analysis we shall find the truth and the true knowledge of the substance belongs to both of us.



Neither you are chloride nor I am the bromide. If it is proved as chloride I am not disproved. Only my point is disproved. One should not identify himself with any point in knowledge and should not feel himself rejected when his point is rejected. In such a state only the spiritual discussions can proceed to any length of time and to any extent of depth till we find the truth. If any one identifies with a point, he will never change since he feels that he himself has to change. He is not changing since he is changing a common point and attaining a true point. He changes his bad shirt and is wearing a good shirt. He is not any shirt. If this concept is realised the discussion can become meaningful. Otherwise the debate is a waste.

 

[dattaswami1]

That is because you have it backwards. Service to God is a service to Man. Do that and everything else falls perfectly into place.

v/r

Q

You are totally wrong, let me explain you,

When the service to your self is considered as selfishness, how can the service to the group of souls (Society) cannot be selfishness? Whether it is a single zero or hundred zeros, it is immaterial. God is like the number one which is greater than a single zero or hundred zeros. Sankara condemned the social service with reference to the service to God (refer to Loka Sevaka Mata Nirasa of Sankara Digvijayam). This entire society is the kingdom of God and is running under the divine administration of God. If there is a beggar, he is under the punishment of sins as decided by the judgment of God. No injustice can happen in His kingdom. Therefore, converting a beggar in to a devotee is primary work.

Helping him in materialistic way is only a secondary activity since the punishment is only for the change of soul. Your effort to transform that soul to become devotee is appreciated by God because that is the very purpose of punishment also. Unless the soul is transformed, you cannot help the soul in anyway. If you are doing some service to a beggar, remember that you are doing it by the will of God only. Therefore, you cannot interfere in the divine administration in any way if you are saving a life of a beggar by giving food to a dying person, it is emergency-service. If the life is gone, there is no possibility for the soul to transform by devotion here. Therefore, this emergency- service should be done by every body because the life is the basis for the transformation. However, remember that you are doing such service also by the will of God only.

Otherwise the beggar may die even after eating your food. Providing the basic needs for the human beings is the emergency-service by which God is always pleased. If the fellow died after your service, it means that there is no possibility of transformation of that soul on earth. Only the special methods of torture in the hell can transform the soul. Therefore, the soul was sent to hell by the Lord. If there is possibility of transformation on the earth, God will give him food through some body to save the life. Therefore, you should not get even a trace of egoism even in the social service because you are driven by God only everywhere. The social service is not greater than the personal service to God because God is above the society. When Jesus indicated the crossing of I by crucification, it means that every soul is to be crossed in the same way. The society is not above the God and in fact it is not above even your family. The family is grateful to you and so the business is fair. The society is not grateful to you after receiving help from you.

The society is just thanking you by words after receiving your service, where as the family is reciprocating your service through the service. Your self and your family are certainly better than the society. Of course, in the case of emergency-service, you can rise above your self and family to help in the basic needs of the poor people because the life should be saved and the life should be settled for any spiritual effort.

Since we do not know the back ground of any soul, our impressions about any soul cannot be real. Suppose you are seeing the scene of hanging a prisoner you will sympathise the prisoner and criticize the jailer. If you have seen the past scene of the prisoner in which he murdered several innocent people you will kill him immediately on the spot. The judiciary system has taken so much time of enquiry to arrive at such punishment. Abhimanyu was brought up by Krishna and he was the only nephew of the Lord. Krishna diverted Arjuna from the war and saw that Abhimanyu got killed. Anyone will scold Krishna on this aspect as the most cruel person. However, Krishna knows the entire background of Abhimanyu. Abhimanyu was a demon who killed several innocent people.

Therefore the actions of Lord cannot be understood because they are based on the total background. Your actions are based on the present scene only. Even in the present you cannot know the internal nature. However, the Lord knows the internal structure of the soul. Ravana came as a saint begging for food. Sita sympathized him and tried to give food. Therefore the human being cannot understand the internal quality of a beggar. Therefore the social service should be done only based on the command from the Lord as told by Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. The Lord has a small human body and at the same time has simultaneously the infinite body which is the cosmos (Viswarupam). Therefore the personal service to His human body or to His macrocosmic body is one and the same. However, the will of the Lord is very important.

The Lord is pleased if you act according to His will. After all, the final goal of the entire spiritual effort is only to please the Lord. Therefore you should simply act according to the will of the God without any analysis. Your analysis is limited to the present and is also apparent. His will is the result of the total analysis done even at the deepest level. His will is not a blind will at random. It appears as if it is a bind will due to the lack of knowledge of total background. Krishna desired the personal service to His limited form from Gopikas. The same Krishna wanted the service to be done to His close devotees that is Pandavas. Rama wanted the total help from Hanuman etc limited to only Sita who is His closest devotee being Maha Lakshmi. You misunderstand that the Lord is interested in His close relatives. However, you don’t know that some of His close relatives are the liberated souls.

If you are in His place you will be interested in all the relatives. Krishna got the Yadavas killed by war and by drinking wine at the end. He has given ten thousand Yadavas to Duryodhana to help him in the war. All of them were killed. In the end all His close relatives including His sons and grandsons killed each other and He was a silent spectator. You think that Rama was fond of His wife and exploited Hanuman to save her. In fact the whole war took place only due to the foolish desire of Sita for the golden deer. However, you do not know the background of Sita. She is the possessor of the entire wealth of this universe. Was she attracted by the petty golden deer? The drama was written like that by Rama. Sankara wandered all over the country to uplift the humanity.

Here the Lord liked the social service at the cosmic level. Therefore sometimes the Lord may be pleased with your service at the level of His human body. Sometimes He may be pleased with your service done to His devotees, who are in disguise as His relatives to test you. Sometimes he may require your service at the level of the entire society. The will of the Lord is important. The will of the Lord is always justified if the entire background is known. Jesus was pleased with the service of a woman who applied scent on His feet. It is purely personal service at the level of His body. A devotee commented that instead of doing such personal waste service for the enjoyment of Jesus, it is better to do the social service by feeding beggars. However, Jesus objected to that remark and supported the personal service of that woman. Jesus told that beggars will be always there but the human incarnation is very rare. The background of this is to be analyzed. The devotee became jealous with the service of that woman. If he was in the place of Jesus he would not have passed the same comment.

The society is not above the God. This is the concept of Jesus and Sankara. There cannot be uniform service to the souls because each soul has its own level of nature. The service should be multy leveled and such capability lies with God only. The woman who served Jesus was a liberated soul that accompanied the Lord and was far superior to any other soul in the world. Rama was very fond of Sita by blindly following Her wish for the golden deer. His blind love was not on His wife but on Goddess Maha Lakshmi who was a liberated soul.

 

[seattlegal]

social service


[FONT=&quot]People often say that Service to man is Service to God. This is a very dangerous statement if it is not properly understood. Service does not mean simply giving food, clothes, medicines etc., to suffering poor and needy people. That poor person is suffering due to the punishment given by God due to his bad deeds.[/font]

Not according to the Christian Gospel:
Matthew 5:43-48

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.​

[FONT=&quot] You have not seen his past deeds but you are showing sympathy on him at present. Your help is only temporary. Make him a devotee by imparting knowledge. Then the Lord will help him and that help is permanent.[/font]

The Gospel should not be withheld from those who want to hear it, but neither should anyone be forced to listen, either.

[FONT=&quot] So the word “service” should not be limited to donating food etc., In such case after receiving your help he may do sins which you have to share. So convert him into a devotee by donating knowledge so that he becomes a devotee, to get personal help from the Lord and also helps others. Since this is the work of the God, such service of yours’ becomes God’s service. Donate knowledge and devotion, even for the wealthy people. Poor did not mean lack of money only. Poor means lack of knowledge and devotion also. Actually the original sense of this statement is different. When the Lord comes in the human form, he appears as a man. You have to detect him by his inherent quality that is blissful knowledge. When you serve such a man your service becomes God’s service because that man is God. When the God is born as a man called as Krishna, some people think that [/FONT]

Doesn't this belong in either the Hindu or Hare Krishna forum?

Aren't there already enough rumors about Christians forcing people to convert in India by withholding aide, which causes Christians to be persecuted India? Now we have a Hare Krishna coming into a Christian forum saying that you must convert these people because they were being punished by God? Isn't that just constructing a convenient scapegoat?

 

[seattlegal]

You are totally wrong, let me explain you,

When the service to your self is considered as selfishness, how can the service to the group of souls (Society) cannot be selfishness? Whether it is a single zero or hundred zeros, it is immaterial. God is like the number one which is greater than a single zero or hundred zeros. Sankara condemned the social service with reference to the service to God (refer to Loka Sevaka Mata Nirasa of Sankara Digvijayam). This entire society is the kingdom of God and is running under the divine administration of God. If there is a beggar, he is under the punishment of sins as decided by the judgment of God.

See Matthew 5 in my above post.

No injustice can happen in His kingdom. Therefore, converting a beggar in to a devotee is primary work.

Sorry dude, mankind commits all sort of injustice. Look around.

Helping him in materialistic way is only a secondary activity since the punishment is only for the change of soul. Your effort to transform that soul to become devotee is appreciated by God because that is the very purpose of punishment also. Unless the soul is transformed, you cannot help the soul in anyway. If you are doing some service to a beggar, remember that you are doing it by the will of God only. Therefore, you cannot interfere in the divine administration in any way if you are saving a life of a beggar by giving food to a dying person, it is emergency-service. If the life is gone, there is no possibility for the soul to transform by devotion here. Therefore, this emergency- service should be done by every body because the life is the basis for the transformation. However, remember that you are doing such service also by the will of God only.

Your argument invalidates free-will.

Otherwise the beggar may die even after eating your food. Providing the basic needs for the human beings is the emergency-service by which God is always pleased. If the fellow died after your service, it means that there is no possibility of transformation of that soul on earth. Only the special methods of torture in the hell can transform the soul. Therefore, the soul was sent to hell by the Lord. If there is possibility of transformation on the earth, God will give him food through some body to save the life. Therefore, you should not get even a trace of egoism even in the social service because you are driven by God only everywhere. The social service is not greater than the personal service to God because God is above the society. When Jesus indicated the crossing of I by crucification, it means that every soul is to be crossed in the same way. The society is not above the God and in fact it is not above even your family. The family is grateful to you and so the business is fair. The society is not grateful to you after receiving help from you.

The society is just thanking you by words after receiving your service, where as the family is reciprocating your service through the service. Your self and your family are certainly better than the society. Of course, in the case of emergency-service, you can rise above your self and family to help in the basic needs of the poor people because the life should be saved and the life should be settled for any spiritual effort.

Since we do not know the back ground of any soul, our impressions about any soul cannot be real. Suppose you are seeing the scene of hanging a prisoner you will sympathise the prisoner and criticize the jailer. If you have seen the past scene of the prisoner in which he murdered several innocent people you will kill him immediately on the spot. The judiciary system has taken so much time of enquiry to arrive at such punishment. Abhimanyu was brought up by Krishna and he was the only nephew of the Lord. Krishna diverted Arjuna from the war and saw that Abhimanyu got killed. Anyone will scold Krishna on this aspect as the most cruel person. However, Krishna knows the entire background of Abhimanyu. Abhimanyu was a demon who killed several innocent people.

Here you dictate the qualities of God and individuals out of one side of your mouth, while saying that one we cannot know from the other side of your mouth.

Therefore the actions of Lord cannot be understood because they are based on the total background. Your actions are based on the present scene only. Even in the present you cannot know the internal nature. However, the Lord knows the internal structure of the soul. Ravana came as a saint begging for food. Sita sympathized him and tried to give food. Therefore the human being cannot understand the internal quality of a beggar. Therefore the social service should be done only based on the command from the Lord as told by Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. The Lord has a small human body and at the same time has simultaneously the infinite body which is the cosmos (Viswarupam). Therefore the personal service to His human body or to His macrocosmic body is one and the same. However, the will of the Lord is very important.

The Lord is pleased if you act according to His will. After all, the final goal of the entire spiritual effort is only to please the Lord. Therefore you should simply act according to the will of the God without any analysis. Your analysis is limited to the present and is also apparent. His will is the result of the total analysis done even at the deepest level. His will is not a blind will at random. It appears as if it is a bind will due to the lack of knowledge of total background. Krishna desired the personal service to His limited form from Gopikas. The same Krishna wanted the service to be done to His close devotees that is Pandavas. Rama wanted the total help from Hanuman etc limited to only Sita who is His closest devotee being Maha Lakshmi. You misunderstand that the Lord is interested in His close relatives. However, you don’t know that some of His close relatives are the liberated souls.

If you are in His place you will be interested in all the relatives. Krishna got the Yadavas killed by war and by drinking wine at the end. He has given ten thousand Yadavas to Duryodhana to help him in the war. All of them were killed. In the end all His close relatives including His sons and grandsons killed each other and He was a silent spectator. You think that Rama was fond of His wife and exploited Hanuman to save her. In fact the whole war took place only due to the foolish desire of Sita for the golden deer. However, you do not know the background of Sita. She is the possessor of the entire wealth of this universe. Was she attracted by the petty golden deer? The drama was written like that by Rama. Sankara wandered all over the country to uplift the humanity.

Here the Lord liked the social service at the cosmic level. Therefore sometimes the Lord may be pleased with your service at the level of His human body. Sometimes He may be pleased with your service done to His devotees, who are in disguise as His relatives to test you. Sometimes he may require your service at the level of the entire society. The will of the Lord is important. The will of the Lord is always justified if the entire background is known. Jesus was pleased with the service of a woman who applied scent on His feet. It is purely personal service at the level of His body. A devotee commented that instead of doing such personal waste service for the enjoyment of Jesus, it is better to do the social service by feeding beggars. However, Jesus objected to that remark and supported the personal service of that woman. Jesus told that beggars will be always there but the human incarnation is very rare. The background of this is to be analyzed. The devotee became jealous with the service of that woman. If he was in the place of Jesus he would not have passed the same comment.

The society is not above the God. This is the concept of Jesus and Sankara. There cannot be uniform service to the souls because each soul has its own level of nature. The service should be multy leveled and such capability lies with God only. The woman who served Jesus was a liberated soul that accompanied the Lord and was far superior to any other soul in the world. Rama was very fond of Sita by blindly following Her wish for the golden deer. His blind love was not on His wife but on Goddess Maha Lakshmi who was a liberated soul.

This does not belong on the Christianity board.

 

[seattlegal]

You are totally wrong, let me explain you,

When the service to your self is considered as selfishness, how can the service to the group of souls (Society) cannot be selfishness? Whether it is a single zero or hundred zeros, it is immaterial. God is like the number one which is greater than a single zero or hundred zeros. Sankara condemned the social service with reference to the service to God (refer to Loka Sevaka Mata Nirasa of Sankara Digvijayam). This entire society is the kingdom of God and is running under the divine administration of God.

Oh, in case you didn't already know, Jesus said that the present ruler of this world is going to be cast out.

John 12:31
30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake. 31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
​

If there is a beggar, he is under the punishment of sins as decided by the judgment of God. No injustice can happen in His kingdom. Therefore, converting a beggar in to a devotee is primary work.

As I mentioned above, the present ruler of this world will be cast out.

 

[seattlegal]

social service
[FONT=&quot]

So the word “service” should not be limited to donating food etc., In such case after receiving your help he may do sins which you have to share. [/FONT]

The basic point is that one should not trouble other living being for his own selfishness

How do you reconcile these two statements?

[FONT=&quot]

So convert him into a devotee by donating knowledge so that he becomes a devotee, to get personal help from the Lord and also helps others. Since this is the work of the God, such service of yours’ becomes God’s service. Donate knowledge and devotion, even for the wealthy people. Poor did not mean lack of money only. Poor means lack of knowledge and devotion also. Actually the original sense of this statement is different. When the Lord comes in the human form, he appears as a man. You have to detect him by his inherent quality that is blissful knowledge. When you serve such a man your service becomes God’s service because that man is God. When the God is born as a man called as Krishna, some people think that

[/FONT]Oh, I see, you reconcile the two contradictory statements by pinning the selfishness part off to the current ruler of this world, who (according to Jesus) will be cast out. I see.

 

[dattaswami1]

No

Aren't there already enough rumors about Christians forcing people to convert in India by withholding aide, which causes Christians to be persecuted India? Now we have a Hare Krishna coming into a Christian forum saying that you must convert these people because they were being punished by God? Isn't that just constructing a convenient scapegoat?

seattlegal, thanks for the reply, I am not here for any conversion. God do not like any conversion from any relgion to any other religion so do not be afraid of that.
The Real Conversion


MATTHEW 3 : 11 (Mark 1 : 1 to 8, Luke 3 : 1 to 18)

“I indeed baptize you with water ….He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”

Veda says ‘Prajnanam Brahma’ which means that the Holy Spirit is the divine nowledge. Gita says ‘Jnanaagnih’ which means that knowledge is fire. This means that the acceptance of Holy Jesus should be through His knowledge radiating through His sentences, which are like diamonds coming out from His mouth. The acceptance should not be just by sprinkling some water. If you accept Holy Jesus just for some money or bread or some materialistic benefits, that is not the real conversion. Your spirit i.e., the soul should be attracted directly by His powerful knowledge. The Holy water represents rituals without knowledge. Unless you study Vedas (Upanishaths) and Bhagavat Gita and realize the knowledge by putting it in practice you cannot be a Hindu. A true Hindu is always a true Christian because the practical sacrifice is the same in any religion. Whether you can leave your family and money and come to God or not is same in any religion. The knowledge is same in all the scriptures. Whether you are a doctor studied in English medium or French medium, you can cure the disease of any patient and perform the surgery. Religions are only languages and knowledge is the content of the syllabus. Anybody does not understand the Brotherly-hood of all the religions.

If you travel along the religion – river you will reach the Spiritualism – ocean. Live as a sea fish and don’t be stagnant as a river fish by stopping your journey which should be along with the flow of religion – river. If a Hindu insults Holy Jesus and Holy Bible, he has insulted Holy Krishna and Holy Gita. Same thing applies to the follower of any religion. Let each human being understand all the religions by reading the scriptures of all the religions. An Indian goes to a foreign country and takes a degree in medicine studying the subject in that foreign language. If he comes back to India he can practice applying the subject he studied to any human being. He can perform the surgery to any person. You are purchasing a diamond from a foreign country or you throwing it away since it is the foreign diamond. You are using the fan, the electric bulb the television etc., which are invented by foreign scientists and you are using these things in your daily life. Why not you use the diamond like concepts from the foreign scriptures like Holy Bible in your spiritual life also? This question applies to the follower of every religion.

 

[dattaswami1]

See Matthew 5 in my above post.

Sorry dude, mankind commits all sort of injustice. Look around.


Your argument invalidates free-will.


Here you dictate the qualities of God and individuals out of one side of your mouth, while saying that one we cannot know from the other side of your mouth.


This does not belong on the Christianity board.

You must realize that the whole world is the kingdom of God as stated by Jesus. Any injustice will be punished by Him and you need not worry about it. Your view of the punishment is revenge but His view of punishment is to transform the soul. If somebody has stolen your money, don’t pray to God to punish that person. Everything is recorded by Him unlike the courts which register the case only when a complaint is given.

The enquiry by God takes place immediately. Sometimes you find no punishment from God and you are scolding God. The silence of God means that the enquiry was completed and the judgment was “no punishment”. In the previous birth, you might have stolen money from that person and today you paid along with the compound interest. In this case there cannot be punishment and the enquiry was over. Since you do not know this, you mistake God for His silence.

Suppose such background is not there, then you will get your money with interest in some other way which is compensated by God. That person will lose the money along with the interest. You will see it with your eyes. But suppose you cursed that person with revenge, you will receive the punishment in addition to the above. Kauravas stole a share of wealth of Pandavas and finally they lost their whole kingdom. Pandavas gained the total kingdom which is double the share. But Draupadi was cursing Kauravas aspiring always for the revenge.

She was also punished for this as she lost all her children. Therefore, we should not scold even our enemy even by words or mind. God takes care of the entire case. If the injustice wins, it is a black mark for His administration only. He is well aware of it and will take the necessary action. He is more serious in your case than yourself. Unlike the court, He does not require registration of case or witness or advocate. When Hiranyakashipu tortured Prahlada, Prahalada kept silent and did not curse him in any way.

The Lord took very serious action in that case. Thus you have to keep God at every step as the basis in the worldly life also (Pravrutti). Jesus told that unless you excuse others, you cannot be excused by God. Your enemy will be punished if he does not excuse others. Such behaviour which indicates the full faith on God at every step of the life is divine Dharma in Pravrutti or Nivrtutti.

 

[dattaswami1]

Oh, in case you didn't already know, Jesus said that the present ruler of this world is going to be cast out.

John 12:31
30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake. 31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
​

As I mentioned above, the present ruler of this world will be cast out.

The Lord is the father of all the souls. Your love on another human being is only brotherly love. The love of the father is far greater than the brotherly love. You are criticizing your father for punishing your brother! The father tries His best to transform His son. On the first day of the war Ravana was defeated by Rama. Rama could have killed him on the very first day. But Rama, asked Ravana to go back and think that night. The Lord punishes any one as last resort. Even then, the Lord doesnot have anger or hatred. The punishment is only the last method attempted for transformation. There also the aim is only transformation. But when you punish your enemy such aim does not exist. Therefore the punishment by Lord is also reflecting His divine love and kindness on the soul. Due to such sacred aim the Lord is authorized to punish the soul. He is just like a teacher who punishes the student for his misbehavior. The teacher does not get any sin in such punishment. The reason again is that the intention decides the action.

Therefore when you live in the world, according to instructions given by the Lord, the Lord is pleased with you. The Lord will make you happy in this world. Your happiness in this world is an indication of His grace. Therefore you will be happy in the upper world also. He is the only one lord for both the worlds. Therefore if you are unhappy in the worldly affairs, you will be unhappy in the spiritual matters in the upper world also. If you are blessed in this world you are also blessed in the upper world. Therefore you follow His commandments and be happy in this world. When you are serving the Lord you should be happy in the sacrifice. You should not sacrifice to the Lord with unhappiness. The sacrifice with unhappiness will make the Lord unhappy. The result of such service is unhappiness in the upper world. Therefore it is better not to sacrifice if you are not happy. Why should you purchase the unhappiness with such sacrifice? Are you unhappy when you are sacrificing to your family members? Therefore the sacrifice without any force or unhappiness is not only waste but also brings negative results in the case of Lord.

In the case of family members if you sacrifice with unhappiness it is waste. Therefore the intention is very important for the Lord. You should not do any sacrifice aspiring something in return. Such sacrifice is only a business. The business done in the case of your family members may bring benefit or loss. But in the case of Lord the business always brings loss. Therefore live in this world according to the instructions of the Lord given to you with regard to other human beings. With regard to the Lord do sacrifice and service to the Lord to that extent only up to which there is no force or pain or business.

 

[Dondi]

Number one, I don't believe God is punishing souls by making them poor. God is no respector of persons. In fact, God ordained where and when a person is born, according to Acts 17:24-27:

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:"

So evidently, our social standing ought not to be a hinderance to seeking and finding God, yea, just the opposite. You equate being born poor with some kind of karmic punishment from a previous life, but Jesus never saw the poor as a hinderance to spiritual growth. In fact, He saw just the opposite. Recall the story about the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man did nothing to aide the plight of Lazarus, and as a result found himself in a burning hell. Lazarus, on the other hand, was with that great Patriarch, Abraham, comforted from his pain and torment. Jesus is quoted as saying that it is easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle that for a rich man to go to heaven.

Second, as far as our service to God, the kingdom of God involves our service to man. Again, in Matthew 25:34-40, Jesus distinguishes between the sheep and the goats saying:

"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

As the late Keith Green said of this passage, the only difference between the sheep and the goats is what they did and didn't do.

I will agree with one point, dattaswami, though your initial premise is wrong, as far as Christianity is concerned. I do not believe that a purely social gospel is adequate. Programs that only feed the body and not the soul are faulty. I believe that God wants us to teach people His ways. "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things a shall be added unto you." - Matthew 6:33. God is able to provide for mans needs, but it appears to be conditional in this verse. The old Chinese agage applies, "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime."